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Author	Topic: deepwater guitars
bill keitel Member Posts: 740 From: worthington mn. usa Registered: Nov 1999	posted 11-18-1999 23:14 There is an interesting industry being developed in the Lake Superior waters. Historically, the entire midwest was built by timber from the northern forests of Minnesota and Wisconsin. Hundreds of thousands of acres of virgin timber were logged off the land from 1830s to 1920s. This prime resource consisted of white pine,white and black spruce,the firs, white cedar,red and pin oak, the acer family-sugar and red maple. In the early days of westward expansion only the very finest and select trees were harvested. Most timber in the northern Minnesota region was floated in large log rafts on Lake Superior, covering many acres. This was an efficient way to transport the logs to the saw mill. Over the many years of logging, numerous logs escaped their sawyers on their way to the mill. These logs which are no longer available in present day, 2nd and 3rd generation forests, would be considered the "mother of all trees" - Knot free, tight grained wood. At present,these "escaped" trees are being rediscovered, though they left their log rafts well over a century ago. Many, eventually sank to the bottom of Lake Superior. They are being "mined" by innovative people that recognize the value of this old and yet well preserved wood. Sitting on the bottom of Lake Superior all these years isn't all that bad for these logs, in fact it creates a very valuable piece of wood. This environment of water and lack of sunlight and oxygen create a wood that is very sought after by luthieres. "Deepwater" wood can be found and sold, by the log, or cut up into this sought after wood. The logs can sell for many thousands of dollars each. Alas, this wood really didn't escape the saw mill, its milling was just posponed. Postponed to a time when they would be used by the great great great grandchildren of the loggers and saywers. Transported to a time when appreciation of a resource like this fine wood is revered. bill k IP: Logged
Tim Mitchell unregistered	posted 11-19-1999 14:22 Bill, do you know of a manufaturer using this type of wood? How long would you have to let the wood dry before using? DOnt they set out regular wood for years before using it? How did the logs end up sinking, I thought that wood floated( likes ducks and very small rocks)? IP: Logged
Kurt Member Posts: 1508 From: Suffern, NY USA Registered: Nov 1999	posted 11-19-1999 15:19 Check this out guys. A good friend of mine, Brian McDaniel just built me a guitar. He built it to my specs and ... it rocks! All the best materials, rosewood and ebony and a very interesting shape. Parlor size with a slotted head and neck meeting the body at the 12th fret. It sounds great. Bill, is the wood you're talking about available on the open market? Brian wants to set up a shop and make his living building guitars and doing repairs. I'm making a website for him, I'll let you know when it's up. IP: Logged
bill keitel Member Posts: 740 From: worthington mn. usa Registered: Nov 1999	posted 11-19-1999 20:46 Tim and Kurt, I just found the site two minutes ago by searching lake superior logging company. Its www.oldlogs.com/visuals/history.html the questions you've asked should be answered there. Hundred year old water soaked logs that are two and three hundred years old. Check out the "stratavarious" connection, in regards to wood and water and its relationship to great instruments.(rather compelling) If you have a gereral interest in wood there is a great author named Eric Sloane he has done a number of books and the one I have enjoyed the most is called "a reverence for wood" it is a thorough compendium of wood, wood types and their uses. Much relates to early America but translates perfectly into your interests. latcho drom-billk IP: Logged
bill keitel Member Posts: 740 From: worthington mn. usa Registered: Nov 1999	posted 05-03-2000 20:41 An update on this company often refered to as "Timeless Timber". I have watched them casually over the last year and they seem to have great press releases and can garner the attention of the public and medias. However they don't seem to be "pullin up" many logs, as there are many restrictions to deal with in this ripairian and aquadic environment. This lastest article http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/000308/enviro_rec_1.html I have found mention that they attended the winter "Namm Show" and showcased a drumset made of this timeless timber. They say their response was overwhelming. They have had numerous products made from this ancient wood and I find it fasinating but they haven't really done much logging. Did anybody that attended the Namm show see this product, was it hovering in mid air? or was it an ol' drum set made of wood. It was 500 year old birds eye maple (playing "Wipe-Out" on this set might not have done it justice!), They quoted Jim Keltner of CSN&Y - a glowing report. Their stock price (as far as I can acertain) is around .85 cents intriguing, but I won't bet the turnip farm on this one! latcho drom rev bill IP: Logged
bill keitel Member Posts: 740 From: worthington mn. usa Registered: Nov 1999	posted 05-25-2007 20:52 I was researching this topic again and found thought I'd "bump it up" then I found Tims comments on "ducks and small rocks" was pretty witty,,really witty,... funny! I'm overcome with a humorous hubrus. P.S. does this qualify for one of the earlier posts? bk IP: Logged
TonyFrancis Member Posts: 131 From: NZ Registered: Nov 2006	posted 05-26-2007 03:58 Interesting topic. Down Here in NewZealand they are doing a similar thing...digging out of ancient swamps Kauri and Totara which are fetching multiples of thousands on the US Market for fine woodworking. Also in the south Island of NZ there is a guy who flys around with his little plane spotting the sunken logs only to re-foat them using specialty search divers! Very pretty wood but hasnt really struck a chord with me to build using it. Its funny we are selling our finest Kauri to the US, but here i am paying top dollar for deepwater american sugar maple (the finest!) for use in my guitars...life! Cheers, TF www.tonyfrancisinstruments.com [This message has been edited by TonyFrancis (edited 05-26-2007).] IP: Logged
bill keitel Member Posts: 740 From: worthington mn. usa Registered: Nov 1999	posted 07-17-2007 20:36 Bump this back...from the last century. The Maunder period.....mayhaps be resonsible for the "Stratovarious" works. Anybody using deepwater woods? bk IP: Logged
drive-south Member Posts: 341 From: Worcester, MA USA Registered: Aug 2006	posted 07-18-2007 04:56 The wood has been there forever and many people knew it was there but didn't have the technology to harvest it. I read an article that said they are using robotic gear to locate the logs and bring them back to the surface. It's the same technology that was used to locate the titanic. The article I read was based on an operation in Alaska. I bet there are similar stocks of Brazillian Rosewood hiding somewhere in South American, just waiting to be plucked from the bottoms of rivers. You would either have to kiln-dry the lumber, or leave it air-dry for 20+ years, maybe more since it is completely drenched with water. Can you imagine just how heavy this stuff is?? I heat my house with cord wood. Hauling green oak out of the woods is grueling. You might as well be harvesting rocks. IP: Logged
Tim Mitchell Member Posts: 1605 From: Nyack,NY USA Registered: Nov 2000	posted 07-18-2007 08:32 "I thought that wood floated( likes ducks and very small rocks)? " Please tell me someone got the reference? IP: Logged
drive-south Member Posts: 341 From: Worcester, MA USA Registered: Aug 2006	posted 07-18-2007 08:54 I can't say I made a connection but I will say this: "If the lake was filled with Whiskey and I was a duck, I'd swim to the bottom and never come up". drive-south IP: Logged
Automata Member Posts: 240 From: Edmonton,AB, Canada Registered: Apr 2007	posted 07-18-2007 08:59 Logs sink because they get filled with water. A log in the water for a prolonged period of time has enough weight to press the water in and over time when it's full of water it sinks. You don't have to wait until the water dries, under negative pressure the water can be taken out. Haven't heard of any instrument made by this type of wood. I think there is only a romantic view of this wood, but I don't think it should have any grain properties different that the same species today. -- _ __ _ www.myspace.com/automataworld IP: Logged
Scott Jacobs Moderator Posts: 3460 From: Port Charlotte, FL Registered: Apr 2001	posted 07-18-2007 09:27 The Holy Grail of tonewoods perhaps? But the difference to some may be as significant as that between species of Swallows from different continents. Btw, I thought Michael Dunn had experimented with some of these woods. [This message has been edited by Scott Jacobs (edited 07-18-2007).] IP: Logged
Mike_E_McGee Member Posts: 101 From: Burlington, VT, USA Registered: Aug 2006	posted 07-18-2007 16:50 quote: Originally posted by Scott Jacobs: The Holy Grail of tonewoods perhaps? Tee hee hee! IP: Logged
drive-south Member Posts: 341 From: Worcester, MA USA Registered: Aug 2006	posted 07-18-2007 19:41 The significance is that you can no longer find old-growth logs in the dimensions that are submerged. For example Red Spruce logs that are 36" in diameter would be very scarce today, but many are submerged in these rivers just waiting to be plucked. Same is true with large old-growth sugar maples. drive-south IP: Logged

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