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| Author | Topic: Charlie Patton |
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W. Jebe Member Posts: 171 From: Registered: Sep 2000 |
I'm looking for the lyrics to Charlie Pattons' songs. IP: Logged |
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Dave unregistered |
Geez, what's the problem? Can't you just pull em off the record?? When you're done with Charlie I have some Joseph Spence stuff for you to work on.
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Bob Brozman Member Posts: 2590 From: Brozmanistan, Earth Registered: Nov 1999 |
Find someone who has the old Yazoo LP, the transcription is pretty good. There is also a book by steve Calt on Patton that may have lyrics, both of mine are on loan... Yes, Patton often sacrificed clarity of lyrics on the altar of having cooler phrases of rhythm! IP: Logged |
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W. Jebe Member Posts: 171 From: Registered: Sep 2000 |
Thanks Bob, I appreciate your quick response and recommendations. IP: Logged |
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Stu Alt Member Posts: 958 From: Arizona Registered: Nov 1999 |
By the way, does anybody know the real lyrics from CP's "Moon's Goin' Down"? One of the verses starts: "Where were you when the Clarksdale ? burned down?" It sounds like he's saying "new" and my wife always makes fun of me when I sing that. Any suggestions? PS I'm not getting a new wife IP: Logged |
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Tim Mitchell unregistered |
I just got a nice new 12 string for my wife...best trade I ever made. IP: Logged |
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Lovat Fraser unregistered |
Stu, from memory it is " Clarksdale mill ". I know the problem , George used to sing " shellac " in " Pony Blues " , until I persuaded him it was "Shetland ", which is a small breed of Scottish horse. Mind you at 13.5 bars per verse , who needs words ! IP: Logged |
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Mike Jolley Member Posts: 46 From: Okemos, MI USA Registered: Apr 2000 |
The Calt book says "Clarksdale mill". IP: Logged |
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Stu Alt Member Posts: 958 From: Arizona Registered: Nov 1999 |
Thanks to all. My wife is still making fun of me, though. I suppose misheard and misinterpreted blues lyrics could fill a lot of server space. IP: Logged |
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Lcwx2 Member Posts: 249 From: Chicago Registered: Aug 2000 |
Hi. You want to go to http://blueslyrics.tripod.com/artistswithsongs/charley_patton_1.htm#top If that falls through, it's on a site called "Harry's Blues Lyrics Online". Everyone should have a look at it. Great resource! As a last ditch effort, or if you want all of Charlie's lyrics, and everyone else's, go to Document Records' web site. They're selling transcriptions of the lyrics of every album that they've released, in 9 volumes, for a relatively cheap price. Hope this helps. Good luck Jon IP: Logged |
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Alex Greenberg Member Posts: 1 From: New York, NY USA Registered: Aug 2000 |
Just checked out the site Lcwx2 send in, whew, what great site... IP: Logged |
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W. Jebe Member Posts: 171 From: Registered: Sep 2000 |
Jon, that web site kicks butt! Thanks, IP: Logged |
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Lcwx2 Member Posts: 249 From: Chicago Registered: Aug 2000 |
Great! I'm glad you guys enjoyed the site. Hope it helped. Regards, Jon IP: Logged |
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Randy Fortune Member Posts: 217 From: Fresno, California, U.S.A. Registered: Nov 1999 |
Great site Lcwx2, now if I could just lern to sing! Thanks Jon, I didn't read your name until I went back to the forum. [This message has been edited by Randy Fortune (edited 09-09-2000).] IP: Logged |
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Norm Reid unregistered |
I have created the most accurate transcriptions of Charlie Patton songs ever. In 1997 Hal Leonard Co. would have published the songbook had I known how to deliver it "camera" ready. Lyrics, chords, lead runs, tunings and tableture. Not Fahhey, not Mann, not anyboby has what I've done. Every recorded Patton song known to exist. If you or anyone you know can help me get this published, I'm at goodnotesx@yahoo.com -NORM IP: Logged |
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BluYanqui Member Posts: 737 From: Manchester,NH. Registered: Sep 2002 |
Damn !!....all this time I thought the line referred to in "Moon Goin' Down" was "the Clarksdale-Newburn Line"....referring to a rail line that ran through the area....go figure. IP: Logged |
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Lcwx2 Member Posts: 249 From: Chicago Registered: Aug 2000 |
Norm Reid. I don't know of a specific company to publish your stuff, but I know that myselfand many others woud kill to get their hands on the material. Perhaps you can contact Stefan Grossman at his www.guitarvideos.com site and see if he'll offer to publish it or maybe even let you teach the material on a dvd/video lesson. I must see this material released somehow. If your stuff is what you say it is, you've got my vote for the next President elect. Is there any way I can see some of this material? My email is Lcwx2@aol.com Are you the friend of Adrian's who was working on this stuff earlier? Good luck and I hope to hear from you soon. [This message has been edited by Lcwx2 (edited December 27, 2002).] IP: Logged |
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hoodadoo Member Posts: 2011 From: Westport, Ct., Registered: Mar 2001 |
Norm, you may want to contact someone like Dick Waterman, or as already mentioned, Stefan Grossman. Have you tried the instructional video companies like Homespun, or Yazoo/Shanache They have been putting out a lot of DVD/Video material. I'd like to see what you got, too! Maybe the people that did the Revenant Box Set can offer direction. I'm sure if you were to ask people like Woody Mann, Bob Brozman, or Ernie Hawkins, they would offer you their advice. I'd love to see what you got. Where are you located? I can be reached at hoodadoo@aol.com. [This message has been edited by hoodadoo (edited December 27, 2002).] IP: Logged |
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Adrian Freed Member ![]() Posts: 2360 From: Berkeley, CA, USA Registered: Oct 2000 |
Norm, this is good news indeed. Potential publishers like to get an independent evaluation of the quality of the transcriptions. The three typos in your message remind me how helpful some good proofreading could be. I recommend you circulate a draft to a few of us Patton enthusiasts in exchange for proofing, feedback and endorsements that will help with a publishing deal. Also, I would be suspicious of publishers that require camera ready materials from you. If they aren't even going to invest in the production aspects of the material how much are they going to spend on promotion? At the other extreme you have the publishers that take all the production and promotion costs (as they account for them) out of your royalties. [This message has been edited by Adrian Freed (edited December 27, 2002).] IP: Logged |
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John B Member Posts: 1387 From: Registered: May 2000 |
I hope Mr. Reid is on the up-and-up. The story of the fabulous treasure that can be yours if only you could help out a little is a fairly common one. I know he hasn't asked for bank account numbers like the Nigerian scams, and I don't mean to sound too skeptical. It seems very strange the Hal Leonard would be so difficult to deal with. I suspect there's more to the story (which granted doesn't need to be shared with us). IP: Logged |
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Elm stakersfeild unregistered |
Damn , some of you really sound like a bunch of tools trying so hard to get the lyrics off stuff thats almost a century old ..... to quote one tool WHATS THE PROBLEM WHY CANT YOU JUST PULL EM OFF THE RECORD ... what a lambskull. Hey mullettheads maybe the beauty in it meaning the songs you tools is that you aint supposed to know all the words...pure genius.. why dont you make up some of your own stuff and stop the copycat action, why do you care so much what someone else said on a record so long ago , ITS what THEY SAID not you .. JUST STOP ALL THAT BULL AND PLAY SOME DOWN DEEP AND REAL HOME STYLE BLUES AND MAYBE IN 100 YEARS YOULL BE AS POPULAR AS CHARLIE PATTON WAS AND STILL IS MAYBE THE KIDS THEN WILL BE LISTENING TO YOUR SONGS probally not , cuz if that was true i would be hearing them right now. keep good music alive be original dont be a wannabe charlie patton robert johnson sn house robert wilkins be yourself write your own stuff IP: Logged |
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BluYanqui Member Posts: 737 From: Manchester,NH. Registered: Sep 2002 |
Would it be a moot point to mention "maintaining a tradition", or "delving into the past to understand the future"???? Questioning the point of analyzing a style of music is perfectly understandable,but a bit of respect added to the inquiry would certainly help promote a decent discussion. Otherwise people might look at one's words and just write you off as a "tool"....*snicker*...B. Ryan IP: Logged |
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Michael Segui Member Posts: 451 From: Woodstock, ONT, Canada Registered: Apr 2003 |
Elm stakersfeild, How come I've never heard of YOU!?! Michael Segui Est. 1974 IP: Logged |
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cmdrpiffle Member Posts: 269 From: santa cruz Kalifornia Registered: Dec 2002 |
Elm, I understand some of what you are saying. On one hand, I sometimes get Sometimes folks will never evolve as musicians simply because they aren't Now, the otherside of the coin is what you are really seeing on this site. People here will discuss what thickness of string Leadbelly used on his G string, they It is a true form of preservation of an art. Nothing more. Ain't none of us ever gonna Elm, I believe what you'd find about folks who contribute to this site are that they That they choose to keep an artform or tradition alive by producing it as closely as If you think they can't blow away mere mortals with their own guitar work... Any, good to see a new face here at the forum, Cmdr (korporate tool) Piffle IP: Logged |
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Adrian Freed Member ![]() Posts: 2360 From: Berkeley, CA, USA Registered: Oct 2000 |
"You must understand, some of the most widely discussed types of music on THIS site were almost lost forever. " There is still lots of music around the world heading down the "lost forever" path. Interestingly sometimes it Indian Classical musicians have found a way to transmit music through many generations IP: Logged |
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Stu Alt Member Posts: 958 From: Arizona Registered: Nov 1999 |
I copy stuff because I'm (mix and match) a) too lazy to write my own Maybe I will try and do my own stuff someday. Until then, I think it's OK to try and figure out what the original lyrics are. I still feel free to modify the words and lyrics to my own nefarious designs. After all playing music is fun! IP: Logged |
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bcw unregistered |
well, i can`t copy a thing , i just play a shuffle or a boom chang and improvise riffs. IP: Logged |
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eskimo Member Posts: 3519 From: Midwest Registered: Feb 2004 |
Elm - when someone said "Why can't you just pull them off the record?" they were being facetious. Charley Patton, in a lot of cases, is notoriously hard to understand. I love it when part of the reason why someone just goes off is because they don't understand what the hell the other person was saying. Sarcasm is sometimes lost on those w/ no sense of humor. IP: Logged |
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DJ71 Member Posts: 21 From: Tualatin,OR Registered: Jan 2004 |
I thinks its also worth pointing out that most of the best musicians in the world are not composers. The fact that people take the time to study a style just demonstrates their respect for it - be it blues or classical or whatever. Dan Johnson IP: Logged |
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Adrian Freed Member ![]() Posts: 2360 From: Berkeley, CA, USA Registered: Oct 2000 |
The specialization of tasks that resuts in the job titles "composer" and "musician" is a very recent one in the history of music making and has a lot more to do with how intellectual property is managed than inherent limitations you might have. Most traditional music contexts value musicians who create words/themes/arrangement on the fly. One of the things that makes many of those old blues 78's so exciting to listen to is that they we being assembled on-the-fly in the recording studio with the performer struggling to fit an arrangement in a shorter than usual time frame of the 78rpm and to satisfy a vague description of what to play to create a hit, e.g. "something about guns like such a such a previous hit". Our current ideas of what a musician does are very recent: for example lets look at Glen Miller and Robert Johnson. Glen Miller was the first musician to obsessively rehearse his orchestra to play arrangements live that exactly much the recordings his audiences came to know through records and radio. Even classical music has never been this concerned with matching performances to a reference - composers commonly changed parts right before each performance. In the blues area Robert Johnson was one of the first musicians to emulate the playing style and actual arrangements of his predecessors because he had access to repeated listening of records. Up to that point people copied each others songs to some extent but there is considerable personality in each copy. IP: Logged |
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John Bushouse Member Posts: 325 From: Registered: Apr 2000 |
An interesting experiment - maybe for IGS, or a similar "group" setting, would be to play a recording (preferably a very good one) of a piece, maybe repeat it over a period of 20 to 30 minutes. recording. People could have a pencil and paper, but no guitar in front of them. They would be given the tuning and the key that the recording is in. Then people would have a day to work on their version, essentially from memory. People could then compare and contrast their versions of the song. My guess is a lot of the "individual" personality of the performer would come through. IP: Logged |
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DJ71 Member Posts: 21 From: Tualatin,OR Registered: Jan 2004 |
It seems to me that the distiction actually goes back to the beginning of printed music when it became so much easier to play someone else's music. Orchestras have been rehersing and performing things exactly for several hundred years at least. IP: Logged |
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Bendy Member Posts: 14 From: Cadillac, MI USA Registered: Mar 2005 |
Sorry if this is terribley out of sequence, but I'm new to this forum. First, I love that you're all into Patton...his sound has tickled my ears since I first picked up a guitar and started noodling around 25 years ago. But, many paths and tunes later, I've never gotten around to learning much of his music. Someone mentioned "Shake It & Break It"...does anyone know if Charlie was playing this in standard, or open tuning? If open, probably spanish??? Any ideas? IP: Logged |
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bighollowtwang Member Posts: 617 From: Montreal, Canada Registered: Jan 2005 |
Standard tuning, key of F, no capo. IP: Logged |
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bighollowtwang Member Posts: 617 From: Montreal, Canada Registered: Jan 2005 |
This might be out of context, but Charley spelled his name C-h-a-r-l-e-y and that's also the way it is spelled on his tombstone. IP: Logged |
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Scott Jacobs Moderator ![]() Posts: 3460 From: Port Charlotte, FL Registered: Apr 2001 |
Patton's name has appeared with both spellings in multiple blues publications by multiple blues historians and authors. In addition, I believe that his name was spelled "Charlie" on many of the original 78 recordings. Bukka White was born Booker T. Washington White but I wouldn't have tried to correct him on how he spelled it. Unfortunately (and ironically), I'm willing to bet that this thread has been in existence since before that tombstone was erected. IP: Logged |
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crossrdblue Member ![]() Posts: 1078 From: Denver, CO Registered: Feb 2001 |
This thread has been in existence since before Kyle Haynes was born. or is it Kile, or Kyel. IP: Logged |
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bighollowtwang Member Posts: 617 From: Montreal, Canada Registered: Jan 2005 |
I've read previously that Bukka White disliked the "Bukka" spelling but stuck to it because that's what his earliest records were labeled. IP: Logged |
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Scott Jacobs Moderator ![]() Posts: 3460 From: Port Charlotte, FL Registered: Apr 2001 |
quote: Actually, I read that the initial spelling was the result of him being asked how he spelled his own name. But really, what difference does it make to anyone besides those who want to correct others? I'm certainly thankful that more information is finally coming to light in the recent years. The folks who were in charge of producing 78's weren't particularly known for always getting it right. Consider that Rube Lacy's original recording was labeled "Ham Hound Crave" despite the fact that its later been disputed that he was saying "Ham Hound and Gravy." Certainly there are countless examples of this kind of thing. Brad, if you're not carefull Kyle might kick your ass himself! Have you seen him lately? [This message has been edited by Scott Jacobs (edited 03-13-2005).] IP: Logged |
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eskimo Member Posts: 3519 From: Midwest Registered: Feb 2004 |
I love this thread and I look forward to seeing it a year from now (check out DJ71's post date and then Bendy's...spooky) Must be Charlee's Pat'uns ghost... IP: Logged |
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