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![]() Song Genealogy from "Sittin' On Top Of The World" (Page 1)
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| Author | Topic: Song Genealogy from "Sittin' On Top Of The World" |
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Corn Dog Member Posts: 1765 From: Montclair, NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001 |
I’m seeking assistance in a musicological composition project. I am working on a medley of tunes based on one of the cornerstone melodies in the the blues genre, “Sittin’ On Top of the World” by the Mississippi Sheiks, from around 1930. My reading about the original tune mentions that Sam Chatmon and Tampa Red both claimed to have originally written the tune and current scholarship attributes the tune to Chatmon. Woody worked through the tune at one of his NY sessions last fall, in slide form, and I'm hoping to build further on that knowledge. To that end, I’m pulling together a list of other tunes that are closely based on this one. My list currently consists of the following: “Things ‘Bout Coming My Way” – Tampa Red (1932) “(When Things Go Wrong ) It Hurts Me Too” – Tampa Red (1949) & Elmore James (1957) As you can see from the list so far, some tunes use the original melody note for note and others have a slight variation but retain the phrasing. I’m counting on the vast collective knowledge of tunes that members of this forum have to fill the list out from the ‘30s forward to contemporary work. Please feel free to correct and elaborate attributions and dates. Thanks for your help! Hopefully the thread will provide a nice guide for others jumping into the music and this one vein of inspiration. [This message has been edited by Corn Dog (edited 06-01-2001).] IP: Logged |
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John Bushouse Member Posts: 325 From: Registered: Apr 2000 |
I found a version from 2000 (see my post from last summer)... http://www.avguitar.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000296.html IP: Logged |
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Dennis Roger Reed Moderator Posts: 1901 From: San Clemente, CA USA Registered: Sep 2000 |
Sittin' On Top of the World is also a bluegrass standard, I think first recorded by Bill Monroe in the late 1930s or early 1940s. Most likely Mr. Monroe assigned the composer credit to himself, as that was his usual format. Same melody, very similar words, but about double the usual blues tempo. Good luck. IP: Logged |
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Jeffrey Sipress Member ![]() Posts: 1335 From: Santa Barbara, CA Registered: Nov 1999 |
Contemporarily, It was done by Tom Ball & Kenny Sultan as "One Monkey Don't Stop My Show" on one of their recent CD's. IP: Logged |
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KyleHaynes Member ![]() Posts: 192 From: Santa Cruz, CA Registered: Jan 2000 |
Heres a few Depressions gone from me blues - blind blake IP: Logged |
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Lovat Fraser unregistered |
"Key to the highway", by ? adios, IP: Logged |
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Eddie Punch Member Posts: 1361 From: Freiburg, Germany Registered: Nov 1999 |
Hi ya'll, Could someone post a basic chord structure for these songs ? In Nashville notation ? Eddie IP: Logged |
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mr mando Member Posts: 1026 From: Heart of the Alps Registered: Apr 2001 |
The blues theme "Sitting on top of the world" is I-I7-IV-iv(or bVI)-I-V7-I-I(or V7), the last two bars being sort of a chorus. As the chord structure indicate, this differs from "Key to the Highway", which is I-V7-IV-IV-I-V7-I-V7, never goes to the iv or bVI in the 4th bar and almost always goes to the V7 in the eight bar. And, of course, the melody is quite different too, there's only slight similarities in the phrasing. This shouldn't surprise, as older blues numbers always have a call-and-response structure, so after each vocal line there has to be space for an instrumental answer. BTW, there was a 32-bar (A-A-B-A) popsong in the twenties with the title "Sitting on top of the world", recorded e.g. by Harry Reser's Jazz Pilots in 1925, which, from a harmonic point of view has nothing to do with the blues classic, but might have influenced the lyric and title of the Mississippi Sheiks' song. And just to set things straight, to my knowledge Tampa Red recorded "It hurts me too" for the first time in 1940. Leo IP: Logged |
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Corn Dog Member Posts: 1765 From: Montclair, NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001 |
Thanks for the contributions so far! Lots of interesting suggestions, especially from Kyle. He may be one of the few holding the torch on this stuff in the future? My ears agree with Mr. Mando’s discarding of “Key to the Highway” but I think we’ve stumbled on a very early fork in the road of the tune’s use. For the life of me, I don’t hear the iv (minor IV) in the Mississippi Sheiks version of the tune. I also don’t hear it in Bill Broonzy’s “Worrying You Off of My Mind”. However, I do hear it in Tampa Red’s cover, and in his “Things ‘bout coming my way.” I also hear it in Elmore James’ cover of “It Hurts Me Too”. Maybe a harmonic development on the original that came from Tampa Red’s slicker ragtime/hokum drenched barrelhouse piano style? I also don’t hear a distinguishing flat 3 of the IV chord in the melody to trigger hearing a minor iv chord. Am I nuts? Am I over analyzing? This may be more scrutiny than the tune can bear but it does get your ear training focused on the task. Per Eddie's request, here’s a crack at a Sol-Fa (Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti Do) transcription of the original melody for those unfamiliar with it with the corresponding lyric below it. The Mississipi Sheiks cover I have is in F standard tuning. My Tampa Red cover is in E and played in open e tuning with the melody played with the slide. Do Mi Fa Do (octave up) Do (octave up) Do (octave up )Sol Fa Sol Mi Mi Sol Fa Sol Mi Do Sol Fa Mi Do Do Sol (lower) Do Mi Do Mi Do Sol (lower) Sol (lower) Do Mi Do Mi Do Sol (lower) Do Do
Thanks again for the feedback and please keep ‘em comin. [This message has been edited by Corn Dog (edited 06-01-2001).] IP: Logged |
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Corn Dog Member Posts: 1765 From: Montclair, NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001 |
Strangley by coincidence, my local college radio station had an on air blues festival yesterday and traced the evolution of this tune a bit starting with the Sheiks and Robert Johnson's "Come On In My Kitchen". They then played an interesting cover by Brownie McGhee and Sonny Terry with the same refrain but different verse lyrics. They also played Brownie McGhee and Sonny Terry's cover of "One Monkey Don't Stop My Show". IP: Logged |
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Eric unregistered |
Sam Collins also has a version of this song. IP: Logged |
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Adrian Freed Member ![]() Posts: 2360 From: Berkeley, CA, USA Registered: Oct 2000 |
Did you run into this info from http://milton.mse.jhu.edu:8001/research/folkindex/S10.htm#Sitontoo: Campbell, Frank. Frank Campbell & the Country Blues, Campbell, LP (196?), cut# 4 IP: Logged |
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Adrian Freed Member ![]() Posts: 2360 From: Berkeley, CA, USA Registered: Oct 2000 |
Or this from http://www.deaddisc.com/songs/Sittin_On_Top_Of_The_World.htm: Mississippi Sheiks, 1930 Notes The Mississippi Sheiks version, just vocals, one guitar and one fiddle is slow and stately compared to the Dead's version. The stately rhythm of their version and the song's melody were subsequently used by Robert Johnson in Come On In My Kitchen. Versions of this can be found on; King of the Delta Blues Singers, Robert Johnson, 1966 IP: Logged |
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Corn Dog Member Posts: 1765 From: Montclair, NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001 |
Looks like we hit a motherload with Adrian!!! Great links too! Do these recordings have covers of the original tune? If so, along with these incredible lists of covers, can you think of other songs that have used the melody? [This message has been edited by Corn Dog (edited 06-05-2001).] IP: Logged |
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sam unregistered |
here's one that seems to have been overlooked. i'm here at work listening to charlie patton/king of the delta blues (yazoo cd). & cut #2, "some summer day", seems to have the same melody as "sitting on top of the world." sam IP: Logged |
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Adrian Freed Member ![]() Posts: 2360 From: Berkeley, CA, USA Registered: Oct 2000 |
John Fahey did a great version of that song. IP: Logged |
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Adrian Freed Member ![]() Posts: 2360 From: Berkeley, CA, USA Registered: Oct 2000 |
Skip James "Washington D.C. Hospital Center Blues" uses the same melody. IP: Logged |
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hoodadoo Member Posts: 2011 From: Westport, Ct., Registered: Mar 2001 |
Corn Dog, after the posts by Adrian, and others, I can't think of an example. But on a relative note (no pun intended) I came across a song written by Bukka White called "Sleepy Myn Blues" that has an uncanny resemblence to Robert Johnson's "Love In Vain Blues". IP: Logged |
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Corn Dog Member Posts: 1765 From: Montclair, NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001 |
Hoodadoo: I believe I have both of the tunes you mention in my collection. I believe the Bukka White tune is "Sleepy Man Blues". I hear the resemblance in the turnaround but the movement from the I to the IV in the verse and the melody associated with this does not sound the same to my ear. Johnson's "Love In Vain" seems to have more movement bar to bar. I'll listen further to confirm my initial hearing. [This message has been edited by Corn Dog (edited 06-26-2001).] IP: Logged |
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Adrian Freed Member ![]() Posts: 2360 From: Berkeley, CA, USA Registered: Oct 2000 |
I thought we had flogged this one to death but how about "Little Woman, You're So Sweet" by Blind Boy Fuller? IP: Logged |
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Adrian Freed Member ![]() Posts: 2360 From: Berkeley, CA, USA Registered: Oct 2000 |
We all managed to overlook Kokomo Arnold's version of Tampa Red's "Things 'bout Coming My Way" which is probably the route to Robert Johnson's "Come on in my Kitchen". IP: Logged |
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Scott Aldrich unregistered |
Bob Dylan recorded his version of the tune (close to the Mississippi Sheiks and Robert Johnson versions) with members of the Band on Blonde On Blonde in 1966, "Pledging My Time". Cool edition to the pantheon. Oh yes, "Some Summer Day", by Charlie Patton is the same tune. IP: Logged |
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Montgomery unregistered |
I've only skimmed the above posts, but I didn't see The Alabama Sheiks' 1931 version mentioned. IP: Logged |
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rmbnxs Member Posts: 17 From: Culver City, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2003 |
Great tune. Compare Howlin' Wolf's version against Doc Watson's for a view of both ends of the interpretative spectrum. Doc's version has long been my favorite. IP: Logged |
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MovieViewer unregistered |
I just saw the film "Cold Mountain", and in one scene a guy is singing "Sittin' On Top Of The World" while he tends his campfire. Apparently the producers believed this song was already in the public domain by 1864 (or else they just blew it. Would not be the first time!). IP: Logged |
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Pat Daley Member Posts: 439 From: Newburgh, NY Registered: Feb 2003 |
Adrian and Sam, Patton's "Some Summer Day" sounds much like "Sittin' On Top Of The World". John Fahey was a huge Charlie Patton fan, but Fahey's "Some Summer Day" isn't at all like Patton's, and also not like "Sittin' ..". I believe I read at the time Fahey wrote his "Some Summer Day", he knew Patton had written a tune by this name, but he had not yet been able to locate a copy. So he just kind of named his new song in honor of one of his blues heroes. Maybe he was just guessing what it would sound like when he did finally find the Patton song. Fahey also named his "Joe Kirby Blues" for Patton. I read this years ago - I don't remember where. Leo Kottke did a similar thiing with his song "Short Wave". He had heard of something called "Dry Guitar" he said from Africa. So he kept tuning in his short wave radio hoping to hear what dry guitar was, and he eventually wrote "Short Wave" figuring that might be what he'd have heard... if he could have heard it. IP: Logged |
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Dennis Roger Reed Moderator Posts: 1901 From: San Clemente, CA USA Registered: Sep 2000 |
Yeah, that's Jack White from the Stripes doing that song, so since he's been around since the Civil War, it made the song authentic. IP: Logged |
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Juergen unregistered |
I just found this really interesting thread about the history and sources of "Sitting On Top Of The World". I done some research myself. "This song is related to a lot of Blues songs, that use the same structure and similar melodies: "It Hurts Me Too" (Tampa Red), "Worried Life Blues" (Big Maceo, one of the great Blues classics), "Come On In My Kitchen" (Robert Johnson), "Come Back Baby" (Walter Davis, Lightnin' Hopkins), "Sitting On Top Of The World" (Mississippi Sheiks) etc. This family of songs goes back to "How Long" by Leroy Carr & Scrapper Blackwell, a great Blues hit in 1928. Every Blues singer had variations of these theme in his repertoire. Tampa Red was especially fond of it and he has recorded a song of this type in nearly all of his sessions. Other early variants were f. ex: "You Got To Reap What You Saw" (Carr/Blackwell, Tampa Red), "Things About Comin' My Way" (Walter Vincson, Tampa Red), "Worryin You Off My Mind" (Big Bill) and of course "Sitting On Top Of The World", a song that was nearly as popular as "How Long"."
"I believe that the history of this song family should start with Leroy Carr & Scrapper Blackwell. Musically and structurally this song is derived from "How Long, How Long", one of the great Blues hits of the 20s (rec in 1928) by Leroy Carr and Scrapper Blackwell, and "You Got To Reap What You Sow", also by Carr & Blackwell (their own follow-up to "How Long"). Tampa Red's Bottleneck instrumental of "You Got To Reap..." (rec 1929) shows very clearly, where the melodic ideas of "Sitting..." are taken from. The title line of "Sitting..." is borrowed from a well known Pop song of the 20, "I'm Sitting On Top Of The World", written by Ray Henderson, Sam Lewis and Joe Young, that was popularized by Al Jolson in 1926. Jolson used this song also in his second "talkie" "The Singing Fool" in 1928 (Info taken from Marvin Paymer, Sentimental Journey, 1999)." There are 8-bar variants ("How Long", "Come Back Baby", "It Hurts Me Too" etc) and 9-bar-variants ("Sitting On Top Of The World", "Thing's 'Bout Comin' My Way", "Come On In My Kitchen". THe minor chord in the 4th bar is optional. It's f. ex in "How Long", but not in "Sitting On Top..." in not in all versions of "It Hurts Me Too". Best Wishes Juergen IP: Logged |
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Corn Dog Member Posts: 1765 From: Montclair, NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001 |
Found another one: Shirlee Kaplan's (?) Please Send Me Somebody To Love covered by Solomon Burke for Bell Records and recorded at Muscle Shoals in 1969. It has a middle B part that is a soul exploration but the A part is solidly rooted in Sittin' On Top Of The World. Sounds a bit like it's inspired by the Howlin' Wolf cover. Curiously , no musicians info, but I think I'm hearing some fledgling Duane Allman slide work on some of Burke's other Bell Records tunes. I'm thinking specifically of Burke's cover of Smokey Robinson's I Wouldn't Be Doggone. Very cool arrangement that sounds like early Taj Mahal stuff with a reso and harp. I also hear snippets of the Allman's Midnight Rider guitar riff. [This message has been edited by Corn Dog (edited January 23, 2004).] IP: Logged |
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bluesman74 Member Posts: 14 From: arkansas city, ks Registered: Jan 2004 |
there is alot written above here. and i can;t read it all. but, charlie patton has a version of this--- i forget what he called it. probably abou the same time as the shiek's version same melody.... but different words.... or is it the other way around? fred mcdowell's " you gotta move" is also the same melody. although fred's was considerably later. IP: Logged |
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niocit New Member Posts: 1 From: Registered: Oct 2004 |
Hi, I have a question about "Sitting On Top Of The World." Recently I went back home to Illinois and heard that song done by Sharday????? Thompson??? Thomas??? She was great!!!!! but I can't find her or the cd anywhere. Can you all help?? Thanx, Ray IP: Logged |
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geoff Member Posts: 55 From: Woodstock, NH, USA Registered: Sep 2004 |
Could that be Sharday Turner on Corey Harris' Mississippi to Mali CD. It's off the top of my head so I could be wrong, but I think that's the name of Othar Turner's granddaughter who plays fife and sings on a few cuts. It's called Station Blues on this recording. Her playing left such an impression, especially since she was 11 or something, I don't quite know what to say about it. Wow. Thanks for reviving this thread. I'm new around and hadn't seen it. It's fascinating. IP: Logged |
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Fun Guy New Member Posts: 3 From: San Francisco, Ca. USA Registered: Dec 2004 |
Let's face it!! Only one person is on top of the world...Santa! He lives at the North Pole! I just wrote some lyrics and recorded a very rough CD which was aired on a local radio station. I can't figure out if this song is considered Traditional according to copyright laws or not. OF COURSE I gave credit to Howlin' Wolf but I was just curious if anyone knows for sure? The discussion above and all ov my research is very confusing. --
Fun Guy Paul@funguyfungi.com IP: Logged |
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sixpick Member Posts: 130 From: Grass Valley, Ca Registered: Mar 2004 |
Ok, maybe I'm missing the point again, but I didn't see anyone reference Clapton's cover of "Sittin' On Top Of The World" on Cream's (I think it was) "Goodbye" album. Also: quote: Wasn't this covered by Les Paul and Mary Ford? I have it named on their "Hits Of Les And Mary" album cover #T1476. I have no idea what date. I downloaded the song from itunes and it didn't sound anything like Sam Chatmon or Tampa Red --
Not everything that can be counted counts. Not everything that counts can be counted. A. Einstein IP: Logged |
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Easy Rider Member Posts: 233 From: Astoria NY Registered: Aug 2000 |
Even the Grateful Dead covered "Sitting on Top og The World", on their first album. IP: Logged |
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sixpick Member Posts: 130 From: Grass Valley, Ca Registered: Mar 2004 |
Well there ya' go. See what I know? ![]() --
Not everything that can be counted counts. Not everything that counts can be counted. A. Einstein IP: Logged |
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Fun Guy New Member Posts: 3 From: San Francisco, Ca. USA Registered: Dec 2004 |
Still didn't answer the Question. Is ths song Public Domain (Traditional) or is there a foundation that I need to contact if I want to publish my lyrics? I am counting on you! [This message has been edited by Fun Guy (edited 01-10-2005).] IP: Logged |
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Dennis Roger Reed Moderator Posts: 1901 From: San Clemente, CA USA Registered: Sep 2000 |
Fun Guy, I'll tell you the same thing I told you off line last month: this thread has shown that this song has 199,949,987 versions out there, and that each has its own pedigree. If your version is exactly like someone else's version, you need to credit them. If your version is markedly different, you are the composer. If it falls somewhere in between, then you can say that it is adapted and arranged by you. As an example, I wrote a song (with IGSer Richard Chizek) called Sittin' On Top of the World. The melody is different than any I've heard with this song, and the only shared lyrics is the chorus. As such, the authors of this song are Richard and I. I give no credit to others... but only because of the mixed amount of authors that created the original song... IP: Logged |
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Richard Chizek Member Posts: 463 From: Republic of Chizekistan Registered: Aug 2000 |
Like the song, this thread seems to have a life of its own. I'm glad to see this come up again, as I have recently been deconstructing and reconstructing this tune, and its most familiar offspring for fingerstyle, bottleneck, AND uke, with vocal and harmonica accompaniment. Just this morning I was playing the arrangement that DRR and friends collaborated on. And while Dennis credits me for co-writing, my small contribution to the variation he mentions is only the descending riff and 'feel.' Which he also changed up a bit. Dennis' point is well taken though, as is his example of ethical behavior when 'borrowing' an idea or a song. Give credit where credit is due. IP: Logged |
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Fun Guy New Member Posts: 3 From: San Francisco, Ca. USA Registered: Dec 2004 |
Thanks! Sounds like I would fill ip the liner notes with all of the credits! Of course I would credit the original composer. I just didn't know if ...let's say Chess Records...had acquired the licensing or there was an estate that would try to claim copyright infringement if I released it! I kept the basic melody and chorus. I individualized the "FEEL" and rythm. I wrote new lyrics and had it played on the radio. I am told that Being played on the radio is as good as a copyright! I mailed a copy to myself too. Thanks for the feedback and I welcome any more. -- Fun Guy Paul@funguyfungi.com [This message has been edited by Fun Guy (edited 01-20-2005).] IP: Logged |
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