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Author Topic:   Playing with a flatpick
Baltimore Bluesman
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Posts: 547
From: Baltimore
Registered: Jan 2003
posted 03-03-2003 03:50     Click Here to See the Profile for Baltimore Bluesman   Click Here to Email Baltimore Bluesman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I started playing guitar with a flatpick.

When I became interested in fingerpicked styles, I continued to play with the flatpick, and added the middle and ring fingers.

At one point, I considered putting the pick down and playing with my thumb and index and middle fingers, the way the great majority of fingerpickers do.

But I found this very difficult -- I would have had to basically relearn every song. So I continued playing with a flatpick and middle and ring fingers.

I now believe that playing this way presents certain disadvantages over thumb, index and middle. Specifically, since the gap between index and middle fingers is smaller than the gap between thumb and index finger, it is harder to span the width of the strings. (I have fairly small hands too, which probably exacerbates the problem).

I am interested in hearing from anyone else who has faced these decisions.

I am also looking to learn what blues greats played this way. (As I understand, Lonnie Johnson and Willie Brown did).

TIA.

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Scott Jacobs
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From: Port Charlotte, FL
Registered: Apr 2001
posted 03-03-2003 05:16     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Jacobs   Click Here to Email Scott Jacobs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good question! I wish I could answer what blues greats played this way. There are alot of modern players who play in this fashion. Chris Whitley plays like this and Keith Wyatt, I think. And then there are all those Nashville players who use this "hybrid technique."

I started out flatpicking as well. Now, depending on the song, I may play with a flatpick, I may use thumb and fingerpicks on index and middle fingers, or I may go naked and just use my fingers. I pride myself on using all these different approaches but I tend to be locked into using one approach within a given song. There certainly are times I wish I could be flatpicking within a tune in which I'm playing with thumb and fingerpicks. I've learned to basically flatpick with thumb and index fingerpick but its not quite the same is it?

I'm envious of your ability to master this hybrid technique and it makes you very versatile. Personally, I can't think of too many downsides to your technique. If it works for you then keep it up.

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Tom Austin
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From: Occidental, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 03-03-2003 09:11     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom Austin   Click Here to Email Tom Austin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Richard Thompson also does quite well for himself with this hybrid picking technique.

I've tried it, a bit, but I face a learning curve to get it up to speed. The "distance" thing you mention is an issue, as well as the fact that one's ring finger is usually quite a bit less dextrous than the index finger. All of this can be overcome with diligence and practice, I'm sure.

There's also the issue of tone: if you hybrid-pick, you're either using bare fingers (middle/ring) or acrylic-enhanced nails (I suspect your Nashville pickers are doing this). Putting fingerpicks on those fingers would not be practical.


Baltimore, you might look around for a pick called Herco. It's a thumbpick, but it's shaped like a flatpick with a curve of plastic that goes around your thumb. I use the Herco heavy, which is around a medium as far as flatpicks go.

I use it exclusively when I play electric (I play rhythm/lead in a jam band) , and most of the time on acoustic when I'm in thumbpick mode. It's really quite decent as a thumbpick, and indistinguishable from a flatpick as long as you prefer using the pointy end. You can't really turn it around and strum with the round end, but that's about it as far as design compromises go.

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crossrdblue
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From: Denver, CO
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 03-03-2003 09:12     Click Here to See the Profile for crossrdblue   Click Here to Email crossrdblue     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spencer Bohren plays this way.

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Baltimore Bluesman
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Posts: 547
From: Baltimore
Registered: Jan 2003
posted 03-03-2003 09:40     Click Here to See the Profile for Baltimore Bluesman   Click Here to Email Baltimore Bluesman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the info and insights Scott.

I'm far from mastering it, but I like the sound I get playing with flatpick and fingers -- I can get a very rocked out sound on the old blues tunes.

Regarding what the blues greats played with: I posted a query on another site a while back. I was told that Son House didn't use fingerpicks (which I guess could be confirmed by watching available video footage). I also was told that Rev. Gary Davis did play with them, he said to protect his fingers. In Calt and Wardlow's book on Patton, they claim he didn't play with any picks, thumb of finger. Curiously, a source said he did so 'to protect (his) strings'. APart from the two that I mentioned (Willie Brown and Lonnie Johnson) I have never heard of any playing with a flatpick.

I associate finger picks with a more modern sound -- on my more primitive sounding pieces, I play without fingerpicks.

I always have to use a flatpick though!

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Baltimore Bluesman
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From: Baltimore
Registered: Jan 2003
posted 03-03-2003 09:43     Click Here to See the Profile for Baltimore Bluesman   Click Here to Email Baltimore Bluesman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Tom, I will look for the Herco picks you mentioned.

Also, I use fingerpicks in combination with a flatpick for some things -- it took some getting used to, but suits some material fine.

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Baltimore Bluesman
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From: Baltimore
Registered: Jan 2003
posted 03-03-2003 10:11     Click Here to See the Profile for Baltimore Bluesman   Click Here to Email Baltimore Bluesman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
waxwing, I was referring to the Willie Brown of "Future Blues" and "M & O Blues".

I believe I read he used a flatpick in Calt and Wardlow's book "King of the Delta Blues -- the Life and Music of Charley Patton".

They discuss Patton's recordings in detail, some of which had Brown playing second guitar. One of these is "Dry Well Blues", on which Brown's supposedly flat-picked, one-step guitar is much louder than Patton's lead lines.

You might enjoy a 1941 recording of "Make me a Pallet on the Floor" (it's on Revenant's Patton box set). It was made by the Library of Congress, and they are pretty sure it is the same Willie Brown who recorded "Future Blues" (even though he sounds different).

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Adrian Freed
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From: Berkeley, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 03-03-2003 18:17     Click Here to See the Profile for Adrian Freed   Click Here to Email Adrian Freed     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am curious which tab you have for Ragged and Dirty. I have Grossman's and it is not very accurate.

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Charles Freeborn
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Registered: Feb 2002
posted 03-03-2003 20:43     Click Here to See the Profile for Charles Freeborn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey John,
I've worked out Miss blues from a tab.that Woody wrote out. I can't say I've mastered the song, but I've been at it for a few months and can plow my way through the basic changes. The rythm is quirky, but once you get the hang of it, it's a fun tune. I'd be happy to show it to you.
-C
PS- Talk about thread creep. Wasn't this supposed to be about playing with a flatpick?

[This message has been edited by Charles Freeborn (edited March 03, 2003).]

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Baltimore Bluesman
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Posts: 547
From: Baltimore
Registered: Jan 2003
posted 03-04-2003 21:33     Click Here to See the Profile for Baltimore Bluesman   Click Here to Email Baltimore Bluesman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I plead guilty...

To contributing to the delinquency of A minor. (Actually, it's A blues, not exactly the same thing).

Seriously, I think I know the part of 'Future Blues' you're talking about that's difficult to play with just a flatpick: the 'dragging down' part, where he pops the bottom strings while alternating strums on the top 2 or 3.

I play this with a flatpick, and do the strums with my bare middle finger.

But I think it's just as doable with the thumb and index or middle finger.

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Charles Freeborn
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posted 03-05-2003 09:13     Click Here to See the Profile for Charles Freeborn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Know what you hear when you push a piano down a mine shaft? A Flat Minor.
Ba dump bump..
-C

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Baltimore Bluesman
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Posts: 547
From: Baltimore
Registered: Jan 2003
posted 03-05-2003 19:45     Click Here to See the Profile for Baltimore Bluesman   Click Here to Email Baltimore Bluesman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Q: What are a tightrope walker's two musical choices?

A: C# or Bb

Talk about thread creep!

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crossrdblue
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From: Denver, CO
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 03-07-2003 13:45     Click Here to See the Profile for crossrdblue   Click Here to Email crossrdblue     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just remembered another GREAT(est) guitarist who played this way - Danny Gatton (post war electric rockabilly redneck jazz).

He played with a pick and ALL of his fingers - grew his pinky nail long to get high notes and etc. A search on "Danny Gatton" gets lots of cool info.

Brad.

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Deltablues
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posted 03-12-2003 09:07           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now days it's mostly rock, bluegrass, and country players that favor hybrid picking.

I'm a blues player, but I learned how to do it early on because it was more convenient than trying to "cup" the pick for finger picked passages in songs that required both. (I kept dropping the pick when I tried to just cup it).

Now days I occasionally use it for electric blues, but when I play acoustic, I always just go straight fingers & nails. I like the tonal warmth of fingers better on acoustic than using either hybrid picking or finger picks. I started playing this way when I was learning MJ Hurt tunes because he always played with bare fingers and I love his tone.

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