Pedal Distortion vs Processor Distortion

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Author	Topic: Pedal Distortion vs Processor Distortion
Sev unregistered	posted 07-03-2003 13:02 Heyo, I was wondering if anyone out there knows if there's any real difference in distortion quality between pedals and processors? I'm asking because i have a Boss GT-3 pedal, and ive set all the EQ on my distortion to give it a good punchy sound, but yet it feels like something's still missing. It's almost as if the distortion sounds fake, generated, as if it's a simulation of the real thing. Also kinda like it's missing warmth. I tried a pedal, and it "seemed" to sound better in the store, but there i was playing on a tube amp. Please note i apply my processor to a clean solid state channel on my amp. I have a feeling this might also have something to do with it. Thanks for your help, Sev IP: Logged
Tom Austin Member Posts: 3404 From: Occidental, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999	posted 07-03-2003 13:08 here's the equation: tubes = warmth. pedals and processors are both digital distortion simulators. Some sound really, really good. Other sound like sh*t on a shingle. I'm sure you can get good-sounding pedal distortion if you work at it and try different boxes and such, but if you want good consistent warm tone at a variety of distortion levels, save up for a tube amp. Accept no substitutes. there are various tube-based preamp type devices (Mesa Boogie V-Twin and the like) that are cheaper than a full-on tube amp. But what you are hearing is down to the solid state amp. When you drive a tube amp hard, you get even harmonics. Drive a solid state(or other digital device) amp hard, you get odd harmonics, which are not musically pleasing like the even harmonics. IP: Logged
Wunderdog Member Posts: 122 From: New Jersey Registered: May 2003	posted 07-03-2003 13:32 I hesitate to jump in on this one. Stomp box preferences are very personal. I ditto the comment that Tom has made about tube amps being the real deal. I have a Gibson es325 that I play through a Peavey Deltal Blues 210. Its a 30 watt tube amp that has both a clean and drive channel. On the drive channel the pre-amp circuit can go from a mild breakup to a warm and silky overdrive. I like the drive channel on the amp because I can get "good" tone at reasonable volume. The clean channel just starts to break in a nice way at higher volume. All in all, I really like the amp, and it was reasonably priced (cheap). That said, I will often also use a Tech 21 GT2 amp modelling box as a distortion pedal. While I originally got it for direct recording to hard disk, it turned out to be an awesome "effect" box in front of the amp. I initially used it with an old Traynor solid state amp, and it gave a good rendition (an approximation, if you will) of the Marshall and Mesa sounds. By using the "pedal" with the Peavey I now have more tone options. The clean and drive channels are selectable by a footswitch, and either of these can be paired with the GT2 on or off. Read the reviews for the GT2 at Harmony Central for the details. It is an "analogue" box, and I like it just fine. On the other hand, I have an old Boss se-50 digital effect half-rack unit that is quite useful for some things, like delay and reverbs, and chorus, but the overdrive settings on the digital box just reek. They have no life or dynamics at all. I think that the digital overdrives are way too compressed. I believe in tubes, and if a pedal is to be used, I think that the analogue ones, at least for distortion, are "better". Ibanez Tubescreamer, anyone? Your mileage may vary. [This message has been edited by Wunderdog (edited July 03, 2003).] IP: Logged
Jeffrey Sipress Member Posts: 1335 From: Santa Barbara, CA Registered: Nov 1999	posted 07-03-2003 13:41 Sev, It sounds fake because it is. There are few pedals that sound 'right', to me. Nothing as good as the overdriven tube, as Tom says. Besides a few tube amps, I have a Bad Cat tube driven 'pedal', which is essentially the front end of their famous pre-amp in a box with some tone controls, and a true bypass. Tube screamers (Ibanez) are classic, and many pedal builders such as Visual Sound base their circuits around that. I have their Rt.66 and their delay/chorus unit (forgot the name of it). I have NEVER gotten pleasing results from a multi-function, mega-sound, turbo-channel, super double throwdown, gazillion effects-on-a-chip type of unit from Boss, DigiTech or the others. IP: Logged
resin8er Member Posts: 1051 From: Fair Lawn, NJ, U.S.A. Registered: Feb 2002	posted 07-03-2003 15:38 Get an Ampeg Scrambler and forget all the rest! IP: Logged
Tom Austin Member Posts: 3404 From: Occidental, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999	posted 07-03-2003 15:52 oh, c'mon, those "super double throwdown" units RAWK, man! I think there is a time and a place for super double throwdown. Like in recording electric guitar straight to PC while constructing a demo of a song you're writing. Or a guy in a cover band who wants to reasonably simulate 43 different tones for 43 different songs, and doesn't have the dosh or the back muscles to haul a jillion amps up there. For those kinds of situations, I got my Line6 POD. For everything else, there's tubes, baby. IP: Logged
Sev unregistered	posted 07-04-2003 08:18 Well to be honest Ive been completely pleased with all the "clean" effects on my processor (chorus, flange, phase, etc). It's just the distortion that's good, but not THAT good! Sev IP: Logged
Bopcat Member Posts: 40 From: Registered: Apr 2002	posted 07-04-2003 21:49 I think the best overdrive/distortion comes from overdriven power tubes and not from pedals or overdriven pre-amp tubes. To overdrive power tubes and not go deaf or totally piss-off the neighbors this means a relatively small tube amp. I play slide on a G&L ASAT Classic through an SF Champ (6 watts through an 8" Weber speaker) and can get a beautiful overdriven sound with some "natural" compression. IP: Logged
Sev unregistered	posted 07-07-2003 06:37 Well i think i've concluded that there isn't much difference between pedals and processors. However, i can't understate how much better i discovered a nice stack amp distortion sounds!!! WoW! It just completely floods the room! Of course that flood also empties your wallet quite nicely. Sev IP: Logged
DigiGuitar New Member Posts: 1 From: Registered: Sep 2004	posted 09-26-2004 07:35 Now we have on the market SOFTWARE distortion too. What do I mean? Say look to this page http://GuitarFX.Net it has distortion sound samples. So, we could compare tube distortion, diod-transistor distortion, hardware-DSP distortion and software distortion! DSP-digital signal processing, example Line 6, V-Amp. software distortion - http://guitar-software.info [This message has been edited by DigiGuitar (edited 09-26-2004).] IP: Logged
Steinar Gregertsen Member Posts: 3670 From: Norway Registered: Apr 2003	posted 09-26-2004 08:07 Software guitar amps has become surprisingly good over the last couple of years, but they still sound very one-dimensional. I have Amplitude and UAD's Nigel, but have only used them for bass and some weird acoustic guitar and vocal sounds...... But they can be very handy for quick demos and stuff. Steinar --� www.gregertsen.com [This message has been edited by Steinar Gregertsen (edited 09-26-2004).] IP: Logged
KC Member Posts: 68 From: Missoula, MT Registered: Dec 2003	posted 09-26-2004 09:09 the thing is, you can buy a nice little tube amp for the same 2-300 that a fancy pedal costs, and you're home free. I'm thinking of amps like the Fender Pro Junior & Blues Junior or the Gibson GA-15, all usable on a small gig, all of which will give it up at reasonable volumes (though the Gibson lacks a master volume, and thus will lead to late-night discussions with the neighbors unless you live way out in the country). A smallish tube amp, cranked, will give you the real-thing distortion that the pedals strive to emulate. IP: Logged
David Kampmann Member Posts: 1230 From: Copenhagen, Denmark Registered: Jun 2003	posted 09-26-2004 09:17 My recipe for a good, useable and dynamic distortion: 1: Gibson flying V guit-tar w/Seymour Duncan humbuckers (Jeff Beck/'59) 2: Marshall JCM 800 top, w/4X12" spkr. cab, line into "low" channel, volume @ max, master @ whatever. Tone knobs to taste, but careful with the treble. 3: ProCo Rat distortion pedal, discrete settings but on at all times. (Distortion @ ca. 1 o' clock, tone & volume @ about noon.) 3: Turn guitar (way) down for rythm, play soft get almost clean "beautiful" sound but still hot tone. 4: Whip that volume control up for solos, add Vox Wahwah and some sort of delay to taste. Stir, play & listen. David. IP: Logged
David Kampmann Member Posts: 1230 From: Copenhagen, Denmark Registered: Jun 2003	posted 09-26-2004 09:22 By the way, Steinar - Have you checked out the "Guitarsuite" set of freeware plugins for your favorite VST host? To my ears, head and shoulders above Amplitube, say, especially the JCM900 emulation. Try 'em, you might be pleased, I know i was. Check 'em at Simulanalog's website It's some sort of research project, hence the status as freeware. Cheers, David. [This message has been edited by David Kampmann (edited 09-26-2004).] [This message has been edited by David Kampmann (edited 09-26-2004).] IP: Logged
Steinar Gregertsen Member Posts: 3670 From: Norway Registered: Apr 2003	posted 09-26-2004 09:31 David,- thanks for the heads-up, I'll dl and test them! I agree that nothing beats a good tube amp, but in my home studio that's simply not an option since we are several apartments in the same house (a 200 year old school....). So I've used the POD since it was introduced in '00, often with an overdrive pedal in front, and I think I get fairly good results that way. All electric guitars on my website (I believe it's finally up again now) are recorded that way.. Steinar -- www.gregertsen.com IP: Logged
LosBoleros Member Posts: 120 From: Pacifica, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2004	posted 09-26-2004 09:40 Check out this stuff. This is my favorite Rock over-drive sound. http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/scripts/downloads.php?mode=search This stuff has real Vintage Krunch somewhere inbetween Marshal and Fender(better I think). In my opinion, the best rhythm crunch out there. I think that distortion overdrive for the most part is pretty easy to achieve. I mean that there are some bad overdrive units out there and some really good ones too. But the first thing you need to have is balls. with-out balls it just ain't gonna be too happening. [This message has been edited by LosBoleros (edited 09-26-2004).] [This message has been edited by LosBoleros (edited 09-26-2004).] IP: Logged
Adrian Freed Member Posts: 2360 From: Berkeley, CA, USA Registered: Oct 2000	posted 09-27-2004 00:34 One of my students has worked on this. I should bug him to post his latest results but here is a link to his first stab at understanding and reverse engineering distortion boxes. IP: Logged

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