Jazz guitar sound... - Acoustic Guitar Forum

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Jazz guitar sound...

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Author	Topic: Jazz guitar sound...
Jookie unregistered	posted 09-10-2003 04:49 Hello! I was just wondering what makes the real jazz-guitar sound... I got a semihollow guitar (Ibanez AG75) and I tried it on 3 different guitar combos... On 2 of them it sounded just like an accoustic guitar, but only on the 3rd combo it sounded like a jazz-guitar should sound (i.e. like Wes Montgomery). What's the problem? Thank you for your help. Jookie (jookie@szm.sk) IP: Logged
snakehips Member Posts: 1042 From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K. Registered: Feb 2003	posted 09-10-2003 05:20 Hi there ! I'm no jazzer at all but if you want my 10 cents worth, then play all with your thumb - for a good Wes tone. Otherwise, a good old valve amp may be the best move. Some amps are good, some sound crap. Use the one you like the best. I bet it happens to be the more expensive one, unfortunately ! Cheers IP: Logged
Tom Austin Member Posts: 3404 From: Occidental, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999	posted 09-10-2003 06:51 I'm guessing maybe also the two combos that sounded "like an acoustic guitar" maybe had too much treble going. that classic "jazz tone" is usually described with terms like "warm" and "dark". These both happen more with the treble rolled off. If you have a lot of treble, the word people will use is "bright", which is not usually what you want with jazz. IP: Logged
pickula Member Posts: 17 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Registered: Sep 2003	posted 09-10-2003 07:47 Some amps suit jazz better than others. The best for jazz are usually valve amps, but there are one or two exceptions, Polytone being the main one, which get good sound with transistors. The standard jazz guitar setup is to have your treble around 3, and your middle and bass around 7 or 8. (This is assuming an amp where controls go to 10). Also, use the neck pickup only on your guitar. You will probably have seen in books and magazines etc that most jazz guitarists use heavy guage strings and heavy plectrums - my (considerable) experience in this field suggests that while some of them do, a large number do not. For example, on 2 occasions I was fortunate enought to meet Joe Pass - the first time I met him he had a 12 for his first string, and the second time, a 9!! His basic tone was rich and "fat" both times. Getting a guitar and amp that match each other well, and setting them as I suggested, should get a decent jazz tone. IP: Logged
Corn Dog Member Posts: 1765 From: Montclair, NJ USA Registered: Jan 2001	posted 09-10-2003 09:38 I think you can get a passable "jazz" tone from just about anything if it has a bit of reverb available. Run the guitar wide open on the neck pickup and fiddle with the tone knobs on the amp as described above until you get it the way you want. I generally run all of mine at 5 (midway) on my Fender Blues Jr (valve/tube). Your settings will probably depend on your attack with either a pick or your fingers. I like the jazzy tones from my Fender Squire Telecaster the best. This sample from a post awhile back was done through no amp at all but a Korg PX3 instead: http://www.randsullivan.com/igsmusic/mistybossa2.mp3 My Guild Bluesbird M75-CS (similar to a Les Paul) also renders some nice tones due to its hollow chambers. Regarding string gauges, I think the lighter gauges do sound thin. I like the sound of a standard gauge set with a 12 on the high E. You're not bending notes much and the tone is really better to my ear. The die hards after "true" Kenny Burrell type sounds get flatwounds. Not worth it to me in my universe of playing at the moment. Maybe you could hear the difference with a semi-hollow body guitar like yours. [This message has been edited by Corn Dog (edited September 10, 2003).] IP: Logged
TonyWoolley Member Posts: 111 From: Bloomington, MN, United States Registered: Aug 2003	posted 09-10-2003 16:26 I would try a set of flat wound strings (like john pearse acoustic electric 2600) These have a wound g string, and are quite a bit harder to bend than usual electric strings, but in my opinion are necessary to bring out the tone of a hollow body. The neck pickup is preferred by most jazzers, and many of the most expensive hollow bodies don't even have a bridge pick up. Ibanez makes a very decent jazz box, and I think you'll be amazed how diffent your instrument sounds with these strings. IP: Logged
slawekmonk New Member Posts: 2 From: Registered: Oct 2005	posted 10-03-2005 02:22 Hi I was wondering that is it possible to get good jazz guitar(archtop or so) sound from acoustic guitar? And if it is possible, than how to do that? thanks IP: Logged
David Kampmann Member Posts: 1230 From: Copenhagen, Denmark Registered: Jun 2003	posted 10-03-2005 02:46 quote: I was wondering that is it possible to get good jazz guitar(archtop or so) sound from acoustic guitar? I feel a woodbody resonator guitar in general and an M2 in particular will tend to take off into acoustic fingerstyle jazz territory at a drop of a hat. Could be a top choice for an acoustic jazz sound IMO. Since I became the happy owner of an M2 my fake jazz index has gone up at an alarming rate. High stacked chord voicings and fake bebop lines just seem to pop out of that warm tone - especially when played with the bare fingers. David. [This message has been edited by David Kampmann (edited 10-03-2005).] IP: Logged
slawekmonk New Member Posts: 2 From: Registered: Oct 2005	posted 10-03-2005 05:56 maybe it is silly for you but what is M2? thanks IP: Logged
Scott Jacobs Moderator Posts: 3460 From: Port Charlotte, FL Registered: Apr 2001	posted 10-03-2005 06:02 quote: Originally posted by slawekmonk: maybe it is silly for you but what is M2? Its kind of like an M80 but more destructive. http://www.nationalguitars.com/lo_band/m2_mahogany.html IP: Logged
David Kampmann Member Posts: 1230 From: Copenhagen, Denmark Registered: Jun 2003	posted 10-03-2005 07:00 Sorry about that. Thank you, Scott. David. IP: Logged
M Stephenson Member Posts: 263 From: Earth Registered: Jul 2005	posted 10-03-2005 09:11 I think that a nylon strung guitar that has a active pick-up with the three EQ sliders can get a decent jazz sound. Unplugged, I think that a classical guitar makes a pretty good jazz guitar. It is easy on the fingers. If you are into picks, they sound awsome with a felt pick. Not all classicals are equal - some are darker sounding than others, a cedar top and rosewood back and sides generally giving a darker tone. IP: Logged
Tadragh1 Member Posts: 207 From: Jablonna, Poland Registered: May 2004	posted 10-03-2005 14:24 I think is kind of stereotypical, that jazz players want their tone dark. Especially in acoustic playing a cutting tone with emphasized mids is the key, I think. Just think of acoustic archtops. Or Django's tone. So back to Your question - You have to answer it Yourself, because only You know, what is Your conception of THE jazz guitar tone. My advice would be to plug Your guitar to any amp and use a parametric equalizer to find on which frequencies Your jazz tone lies. Having said that - my Polytone 101 is instant jazz tone, even with solidbody electrics. The same with an older huge Acoustic Control Corporation amp I used to own. IP: Logged
Wayne Byrnes Member Posts: 634 From: Katoomba, NSW Australia Registered: Sep 2005	posted 10-03-2005 14:45 To get that Jazz sound dont you need some Jazz cigatettes? hehe WJB IP: Logged
Kirk Rogers Member Posts: 251 From: Pasadena, Ca USA Registered: Mar 2005	posted 10-03-2005 14:49 No Jazz cigarettes but it helps if your a smoking guitar player. I think the best advise is a liitele reverb and 3/4 treble on a electric guitar. It is a matter of playing style. I have that style and it is the tempo, muffling sound and style. Kirk Rogers Guitar Ideas IP: Logged
mudslide Member Posts: 201 From: Santa Monica USA Registered: Sep 2005	posted 10-03-2005 15:40 Heavy gauge Flatwound strings, Archtop guitar, treble rolled off, neck pickup, and solid state amp for a lot of clean headroom has been the formula for many--and don't forget the pipe! IP: Logged
Mike Neer Member Posts: 1325 From: Registered: Mar 2004	posted 10-03-2005 16:15 I disagree on rolling off the tone--that's a Jim Hall thing--but most guitarists leave (or left) the treble up, e.g., Wes, Charlie Christian, Barney Kessel, Tal Farlow, George Barnes (great tone), Django etc. Nothing sounds worse to me than that rolled off treble sound. Gotta have full range tone. IP: Logged
Jubilee Valence Member Posts: 1927 From: Casa Grande, Ariz. Registered: Dec 2004	posted 10-04-2005 00:08 to slawekmonk, you'll get a killer, "inspiring" tone by picking lines and lightly brush-strumming chords up around the 15th fret or so...I go from 13-17 on my 14 fret square dreads; "I" have a Epi Joe Pass: http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=9&CollectionID=1 and I pretty much keep the bridge pick-up blended in somewhat--same for tones; Amp: treb-low; mid-around 8; bass.......jeeezz!!-I can't figure what I want to do!.....maybe 3-4; sometimes 6-7???? Jim Dunlop Stubbies(ain't tried the Wegans yet...) large teardrop really works best for me...pickula et al:[url]http://www.legatoguitars.com/default.htm [/url]these guys go through poly's like no tommorrow! but they "get 'em"...FrankB at AG forums knows of a shop in 'Jersey, that "keeps 'em in stock"?!?!---I ain't heard of anyone not on th' list!-so if yer' looking--flag down Frankie--tell 'im Jubi sent'cha ...........on a related(kinda'...)....my "arch" H-O-W-L-S! at ANY appreciable level--I was told the coils are already wax-dipped at my year of make---'04, but if that really works...they "ain't"!....in "Vintage Guitar Mag"(online even)-"articles" interviews-"Moby Grape" guy...he ordered a brand spanking new from Gib--a #175 Jazzer--with THE "deal buster" of ---N-O! H-O-W-L!...when he plugged it in...."no howl"---help!?--p.s.--I've even just now-got both pick-ups cranked down BELOW the "field"('as envisioned as......a "football"["Yank"-not round or whatever]standing on it's nose, about an eigth-inch above each pole mag & maybe wha-?--3/16ths tall?--any "field" guys remember this one?.....maybe I'll try the mid-area--cuz' I had'em "UP" there before...... "Dazed 'n' confus-ed" -- ...seven little notes; that's all it takes... IP: Logged
Patrick Curley Member Posts: 102 From: Australia Registered: Feb 2005	posted 10-04-2005 18:25 I found it interesting that a few guys are suggesting to pick the mids up. I had a set up for years with an old (1963) semi acoustic Maton Jazzman and a Fender Bassman 50W and I would knock out 400 and 800 with a parametric and it was as smooth as silk. Maybe it was my gear, I used the lead channel on the Bassman (I tried it through the bass channel and it sounded like mud). I guess you need to experiment, I found the parametric EQ invaluable for shaping the tone. I was taught to turn the level up to max on a particular bandwidth and cruise through the frequencies until you find a shocker and then cut it out, always works for me. IP: Logged
marigold28 Member Posts: 317 From: Michigan metro Detroit Registered: Feb 2005	posted 10-06-2005 17:20 My first guitar was a early 1990's FENDER MONTARA acoustic electric. The body was a tad smaller or thinner than a dread as I recall and it was cutaway. It was acoustic electric. I thik soemone said it was a jazz guitar but not sure. I always wondered myself. I don't care for Fender acoustics, but they can do the job if needed. IP: Logged
Tom Austin Member Posts: 3404 From: Occidental, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999	posted 10-06-2005 18:36 guess you need to experiment, I found the parametric EQ invaluable for shaping the tone. I was taught to turn the level up to max on a particular bandwidth and cruise through the frequencies until you find a shocker and then cut it out, always works for me. >>>> yep. a parametric EQ kicks ass. I have a semi-hollow electric that was producing a fairly annoying honkiness in the low-mids. Dialed it in, killed it, smiles all around the band. Apparently this is a regular feature of hollowbodies and semihollows. IP: Logged

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