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![]() Frosted Duco Attempt?
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| Author | Topic: Frosted Duco Attempt? |
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Reson8r Member Posts: 341 From: Olinda, Maui Registered: Aug 2004 |
Hi, I'm new on here and would first like to say hello to everyone. It's great that there are so many people interested in great music and wonderful guitars. Keep the faith! My initial inquiry is this: I'm wondering if, like me, there is anyone out there who would like to see National Resophonic reissue a Duolian-style guitar with a faithful reproduction of a Frosted Duco finish? If they did, I would buy one in a minute!For me, the new baked-appliance finish they use on their steel bodied instruments just doesn't cut it for me. I understand that it is probably illegal in California to use that paint formula, but surely they could get a close approximation? I own three Nationals with that finish and they are all gloriously different in color and texture: 1. 1932 Duolian - two-tone green 2. 1932 Duolian -Grey with major frost and crinkle pattern 3. 1933 Triolian B- green with minor frost. I also own a 1994 Style O, a 2003 Delphi Vintage Steel, a 1933 Style O, a 1999 Resolectric Jr., a 1930 Style 2 Tricone and a early 90's Continental Style 3. I love all of them and play them all regularly. I have searched high and low on the web, checked threads here,asked several luthiers and older industrial paint manufacturers and no one claims to know or is sayin' nuthin'! I am a believer in leaving original finishes alone, no matter how battered they are, but I can't help but think how cool it would be to have a new model with that finish. Any answers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and Kind Regards, Reson8r IP: Logged |
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resin8er Member ![]() Posts: 1051 From: Fair Lawn, NJ, U.S.A. Registered: Feb 2002 |
I won't be answering your question, but your screen name is curiously very similar to mine. What's up with that? IP: Logged |
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Reson8r Member Posts: 341 From: Olinda, Maui Registered: Aug 2004 |
Sorry, Didn't know there was a similar one. For the record, I have had the same thing on my liscene plate for 9 years. Best Regards, Reson8r IP: Logged |
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resin8er Member ![]() Posts: 1051 From: Fair Lawn, NJ, U.S.A. Registered: Feb 2002 |
Yeah, I think I made that license plate. IP: Logged |
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Reson8r Member Posts: 341 From: Olinda, Maui Registered: Aug 2004 |
Nice one!
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Mike D Member ![]() Posts: 1393 From: Phx, Az Registered: Dec 2000 |
Reson8r, the 'secret' of Frosted Duco seems to have been uncovered a while back and it's.....mothballs. Or specifically napthalene crystals dissolved in nitrocellulouse lacquer. I've seen pictures of the results and have bought some napthalene flakes but have not gotten around to trying it out. IP: Logged |
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Paul Norman Member ![]() Posts: 1601 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Aug 2003 |
Mothballs and nitro - don't try this at home. It sounds like an explosive mixture to me. IP: Logged |
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cymo Member Posts: 66 From: Boston, MA Registered: Aug 2004 |
Check out this refinished duolian for sale from Rothmans on gbase: www.gbase.com/gearlist/guitar_picture.asp?guitar=510769 Doesn't look exactly right, but pretty close, no? IP: Logged |
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Rhino Member Posts: 536 From: Southern Cal, USA Registered: May 2004 |
A buddy of mine has been able to duplicate the finish. I have pics of the finished product, and it looks awesome. Problem is the environmental issues. In fact, the recipe was once in a popular science(?) magazine back sometime in the 30's. It surely can be done, but would not meet environmental standards. National Reso could not legally duplicate this finish, which is why they use essentially auto finishes on their guitars. Gotta looooove the Duco! IP: Logged |
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Steven Marks Member Posts: 365 From: Greenwich Village, NY Registered: Jun 2003 |
Somewhere, deep in the hills, a secret National refinishing lab flaunts environmental standards to recreate classic finishes. It's location only hinted at and fiercely protected... IP: Logged |
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Reson8r Member Posts: 341 From: Olinda, Maui Registered: Aug 2004 |
Wow! Thanks for the info.Who'dda thunk it?Looks like the wheels(and the sweaters in grandma's attic) are turning... Best Wishes, Reson8r IP: Logged |
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Michael Segui Member Posts: 451 From: Woodstock, ONT, Canada Registered: Apr 2003 |
quote: Where did you get them? It may be cool to buy a painted Johsnon or Regal to strip and experiment on. I have lots of NC at work (I'm in the ink biz). Hmmmmmmmmm..... Michael Segui [This message has been edited by Michael Segui (edited September 21, 2004).] IP: Logged |
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Mike D Member ![]() Posts: 1393 From: Phx, Az Registered: Dec 2000 |
You can buy the Napthalene flakes on eBay. www.ebaystores.com/chemsaversinc ------------------ IP: Logged |
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bdeivert Member Posts: 187 From: Karlstad, Sweden Registered: Aug 2004 |
Len, please post some pics of the finished results of the DUCO finish??? I am sure everyone is interested! cheers IP: Logged |
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Bob Brozman Member Posts: 2590 From: Brozmanistan, Earth Registered: Nov 1999 |
Some years ago a National collector who was also a chemist, sent me a 1/2" thick stack of patent papers for these finishes. All of them fall between 1929-34, so typical of Dopyera to use the latest cutting-edge materials! Altering the various components changes the amount of crystallizing and also the "depth" of same. Must be done in a still room. Also The crystal "flowers" are started by lightly touching the wet paint with the tip of a nail in different places. Too bad these finishes are illegal in Calif, but how about in Houston Texas? It' "Anything goes" there, pollution-wise! While we are on the subject, have you ever noticed that rolled f-hole triolians of a certain period have visible wrinkling in the metal near the bass side f-hole? Something inconsistent wth the die. IP: Logged |
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Mike D Member ![]() Posts: 1393 From: Phx, Az Registered: Dec 2000 |
Nitro can be sprayed in California, you just need the right EPA-Ok'd booth and re-claim set up similar to what Fender uses. Bigger bucks I'm sure than what National R-P and most other builders can swing. Maricopa county where I live has essentially the same air quality laws that Cali. has so I can't buy nitro here, but I can in other parts of AZ, as well as most of the country, not just Texas. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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snakehips Member Posts: 1042 From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K. Registered: Feb 2003 |
Hi there ! Kay did a guitar (in the 30's) with the frosted Duco finish on it too, I believe. I wonder about regulations in the UK. Perhaps we (Royal we) could do the Duco finish ? This sounds so exciting ! Maybe a modern, tougher version, or a tough top coat could be done ? (metal-finger-pick - proof !) IP: Logged |
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resin8er Member ![]() Posts: 1051 From: Fair Lawn, NJ, U.S.A. Registered: Feb 2002 |
Just get the bloody thing galvanized and be done with it! IP: Logged |
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styleo Member Posts: 129 From: Florissant, MO Registered: Jun 2004 |
A buddy of mine has a HVLP sprayer and an explosion proof fan setup. I think I'm going to get some of those flakes off ebay and shoot a green frosted finish on my Sterling single cone this winter. Does anyone know, would it be OK to sandblast off the existing finish, or do I need to chemically peel it off? I need to look up the word "procrastinate" but I just keep putting it off. (Me 2004)
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cole Member ![]() Posts: 697 From: Louisville KY Registered: Jan 2004 |
Most folks would choose stripping because of the accessibility of a sandblaster. But, it's an excellent idea. If I were to go that route, I would find a gunsmith in your area that is set up to do that. The reason is two fold. It should be beadblasted not sandblasted. Sandblasting is too course. You shouldn't use high pressure blasting either... this isn't an I beam being prepped for industrial coatings. I like the idea of the bead blasted surface for primer to cling too. It would provide an excellent bond. However, you'll need to build up a primer thickness that will level out smooth for the following top coats. Otherwise, a rough surface may give you a satin finish effect, which would be cool if that was what you're after. I've done this both ways using automotive polyurathane with good results. I'd get a couple of scraps of sheet metal and experiment before you committed the body to a certain procedure. I beadblasted a coverplate (only) and stripped the body on a late 30's Duolian. The coverplate turned out satin. Over time and wear, fine line alligator cracks formed on the coverplate as a result of the primer and top coat shrinkage. The lines filled with dirt and grime with made the lines appear black. It was a pretty cool, yet unplanned effect. Here's the pic of Peaches: http://www.mair.bizland.com/id10.html Good luck! ]www.colestevens.net[This message has been edited by cole (edited September 23, 2004).] [This message has been edited by cole (edited September 23, 2004).] IP: Logged |
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styleo Member Posts: 129 From: Florissant, MO Registered: Jun 2004 |
Hi Cole, Thanks for the advice. The guy who has the spray booth also has a sandblasting rig. I talked to him about it, and he said we would use pecan shells as they are less aggresive. I checked out "Peaches", what a cool peaches and cream burst. Very nice. I need to look up the word "procrastinate" but I just keep putting it off. (Me 2004)
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cole Member ![]() Posts: 697 From: Louisville KY Registered: Jan 2004 |
pecan shell works too, not as abravise and quick cutting as sand. Bead gives the finest blast effect IMO. Cool! Blast away....
keep pickin'...
Cole IP: Logged |
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Greg H Member Posts: 62 From: Moscow, Idaho USA Registered: Feb 2003 |
Elderly has a duco refinished Triolian that was refinished by their shop manager. It looks pretty good. I guess they can do duco finish in Michigan without running afoul of environmental laws. http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/50U-1490.htm IP: Logged |
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Brian Kramer Member Posts: 843 From: Stockholm Sweden, via NYC Registered: Oct 2003 |
Jeeze! That practically brings tears to my eyes... Really liking the idea of that off-set hand rest! Excuse me, I need to take a bromo or something... I'm experiancing some kind of GAS attack. (When two grand seems reasonable to a poor musician, you know your in trouble!) IP: Logged |
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snakehips Member Posts: 1042 From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K. Registered: Feb 2003 |
Hi there ! Wow ! That is looking good. Just a few tweaks needed really to make it even more authentic. I wonder how durable the finish is ? About the same as an original, or tougher ? IP: Logged |
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eskimo Member Posts: 3519 From: Midwest Registered: Feb 2004 |
I've spoken to Steve Olson on a number of occaisons and he's a really helpful guy. I didn't know he had that up his sleeve though. Very nice. That's worth every penny especially because you can actually lift it. IP: Logged |
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snakehips Member Posts: 1042 From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K. Registered: Feb 2003 |
Hi again ! I wonder how easy or difficult it was to obtain that stunning result ? Actually, this post is mainly to see if I've managed to successfully add an avatar ! Hope it has worked ! IP: Logged |
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snakehips Member Posts: 1042 From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K. Registered: Feb 2003 |
Hi again ! Ya beauty ! (Scottish expression - pleased about something !) That's me with my Kay "Elmore" axe. Sorry to hijack the post. [This message has been edited by snakehips (edited 09-28-2004).] IP: Logged |
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Brian Kramer Member Posts: 843 From: Stockholm Sweden, via NYC Registered: Oct 2003 |
Snakehips! Come on by the Tron theater in Glasgow, Friday Oct. 1st, I'll be kicking off my UK tour there... Gonna be a "sick" night of good ol' foot stompin' blues! BK IP: Logged |
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jvesey Member Posts: 1828 From: New York Registered: Jul 2003 |
"Really liking the idea of that off-set hand rest!" Is that a new idea? Haven't seen that before. Have I been missing something? IP: Logged |
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Michael Segui Member Posts: 451 From: Woodstock, ONT, Canada Registered: Apr 2003 |
I think it is offset because it is on upside down. Michael Segui Est. 1974 "The electric guitar is a fraud." - Mance Lipscomb IP: Logged |
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snakehips Member Posts: 1042 From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K. Registered: Feb 2003 |
Hi there ! Brian Kramer ! Just checked out the Tron Theatre website for your gig. Amazingly you are going to have in your band, rather unusually for blues, a Harp player. Not sure if that is Glasgow sarcasm or sheer ignorance ? IP: Logged |
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