I'll assume that you were trying to be helpful and not, merely, critical and respond accordingly:

Sorry to post another pic from that same little performance but observe:

You can see how "comfortable" I am: the friggin' canvas-sling chair had me folded in half with my friggin' knees up under my chin! Fun! Unfortunately, this was all that had been provided. They probably figured everyone was going to stand, while playing. However, I pretty much always place my squareneck thusly and would think that propping the neck against my left knee would only tilt the neck, rather than keeping it level. Then again, as poorly as I play, I suppose the position probably doesn't make a helluva lot of difference, anyway!

(Oh: that's my old handmade 'Alvarez', sitting behind me.)

For playing any of my guitars, I'm happy enough with a padded folding chair. You know: the cheap kind used with folding card-tables.

In general, the kids I see these days are far less extreme in dress than we were. The major difference is tatoos and piercings. We may have had a few males among us who pireced ears (and nothing else) and body paint on women always washed off. Maybe the kids have made more of a commitment to their counter culter because what they do to their bodies is permanent.

I had the honor of working for the Robert Reich (Clinton's first Sec'y. of Labor) for Governor campaign in Massachusetts. Unfortunately, Bob started his campaign too late and lost the primary to a Beacon Hill hack. The slick Republican Mitt Romney won against her in a walk. Robert Reich's campaign was run primarily by young folks. It gave me new hope for that generation. They were truly committed to thinking their way through political issues and becoming part of the solution.

I think a lot of the sex or pseudo-sex in performances comes from our age of AIDS. While we got off on doing illegal things like grass and LSD, the new generation's thrill seems to be thumbing it's nose in the face of death. It's just a different brand of nihilism.

I think we haven't begun to see the backlash that will come from young people when it becomes apparent how much liberty they have lost during this era - In my opinion, the most repressive since my childhood in the '50s.

Wow! Thanks for nice compliments about my Beloved Mate! Of course, I'm kinda partial to her so it doesn't break my heart when folks tell me that she's attractive: only confirms that I have good taste in wimmens. (I've always been amazed at how many pretty wimmens are attracted to homely guys, like me!) She's a good lady, fer sure...and has been my bassist ever since she auditioned for me, back in '81. We didn't get personally involved for a couple more years, though: mixing a band and romance is NOT a good idea!

Well, at least, not usually!

And putting up with me for the last 20 years? Believe it or not, I'm not the easiest person to live with...which I'm sure surprises most of you! She'll probably be proclaimed a SAINT for so doing!

Anyway: I passed along all y'all's kind words to which she replied: "Good thing I have a mirror. Otherwise I'd get a fat head!" Which is sooooo typical of her!

Here's one last pic of her playing her First Love: her 5-string passive "J":

Ian

Mr. Crumb

In spite of my rant, which may have sounded like an apocolyptic vision of our future, I truly believe that humans always come through when the hour is at its darkest. As I said in my above diatribe, I have met some very amazing youngsters over the years who made me realize that there are always those few who step up and make us all proud in every generation. Even the chaos of 9/11 showed us that when its really important people will instinctively do the right thing and rise to unsuspected heights. Yes, I still have a bright hope for our future because I have met some of those who will be there to help carry us on into the next generation.

Now my next response may be the one that ends up putting me at the stake with firewood at my feet....

Mr. Mando...

Our fashions (I'm pushing 50) were pretty silly too. I live in a college town, and every time in the last few years I see some kid with big bellbottoms hanging to the ground, looking miserable walking around in our slush-ridden Februaries, I have to smile. At least the 80's haven't hit that hard yet. I don't think I can stand all that hairspray again.

Interesting observations! This might surprise you, but THIS Old Bastard (age 58 on 10-7) agrees with just about everything you wrote. I have, often, stated that I have been nothing but disappointed by my generation. While I was never a true "Hippie"...if such ever REALLY existed, I certainly appreciated their idealism...even if they were a bit naive...and I thoroughly enjoyed hanging out with many of them...except the most pretentious, of course. Even though I was entirely too bellicose for their "Love, Peace and flowers" ways, they were tolerant of me and I had a lot of fun with them. Personally, I found a lot of value in experimenting with psychedelics and psychotropics and it was nice to be around like-minded people. And, as you mentioned: there was the Free Love aspect, too: what a GLORIOUS time for personal experimentation and growth! Unfortunately, all-too-quickly, the "drugs of choice" turned from relatively benign substances, like Cannabis and Psilocybin, to amphetamines, alcohol and then, cocaine. The music went from experimental ear-stretching stuff to Disco and then gawd-awful Country-Rock and, finally, shit-kicking Country. (Not to knock on Country: I've played it and still like some of it. It's just the average phony "buckaroos" that turn me off: loudmouthed "Urban Cowboys" and riding mechanical bulls comes to mind!). Our "heroes" went from M.L King to truck-drivers who were proclaimed "the last American outlaws"! Once again, Ignorance replaced Spirituality and we were headed straight back to a '50s mentality I despised growing up in. Yeeeeeeee-haw!

Within a very few years, the whole "Hippie" movement had disintegrated and been replaced by short hair, suits and strangling ties on men and ugly, shapeless clothes and hairstyles for women. I don't think that it was coincidental that this all happened around the time the criminal, Nixon, came to power and started his "War On Drugs" and other oppressive measures we're still stuck dealing with so many years later.

Were the late 60s sacrosanct? Not to me! Some folks forget that for every Hippie, there were twice as many thugs of the same age, sporting Elvis 'doos or crewcuts who wanted to kick-the-crap out of them. For every antiwar protestor, there were groups of troglodytes yelling "Commie, pinko FAGGOTS!" and other highly original taunts. But there WAS something special about those times...even if they weren't as halcyon as some would have you believe. Yes, every generation comes up with fashions & music that infuriate their parents. Don't forget that, back in the "Roaring '20s", good & righteous bible-thumpers were proclaiming the "evils" of Jazz (dismissed as "jungle music") and were morally outraged by the "flappers", wearing their short skirts and dancing the 'Charleston'.

(What's the old saying? The more things change, the more they stay the same!)

And so it has been for every generation! There seems to be some basic design-flaw in human genes that gives "us" a predilection for the banal. "Intellectuals" and innovative Artists have usually been the target of the masses and their self-righteous "witch-hunts"...sanctioned by "God" or nationalism, of course: "I know nothing and I want to make sure that you know nothing, too!" and "If it's good enough for me, it should be good enough for you!" My fellow Talking Monkeys seem to have a real problem with leaving others in Peace...especially if they look like they're having a bit too much fun! So, for me, it's really more about a SPECIES thing, rather than a generational one.

That said: as a musician, I have usually found that, for me, the best way to get to know a culture...or generation...is through its music. Which is why, for all intents and purposes, I haven't bothered listening to the radio since the advent of Disco, in the '70s...and have preferred to explore the music of diverse cultures worldwide, as well as "alternative" music, at home.

The thing I find most disturbing about so much of the more progressive music...from Punk-through-Hip Hop is that it has become increasingly negative, self-destructive and misogynistic. Some of it is "interesting", certainly...but, damn, it's also very negative! And aren't all the tattoos and body-piercing really little more than self-mutilation? Most of the "Hippie" music, from the late '60s certainly wasn't negative...well, except for mine, which was and still is VERY dark! And the fashions, while often silly, were certainly not meant to portray "gangstas"!

Then again, I guess that the music & fashion really DO reflect the current state-of-things, don't they?

However, be of good cheer: everyone from my generation DIDN'T "sellout"! Some of us are still trying to make lives that have some value...other than the Almighty Paycheck. We don't all wish to be 'Pop Divas', churned out like so much link-sausage from a second-rate factory. I certainly turned my back on all that rubbish...as did our very own Bob Brozman. The difference between him & me (beside the fact that he's nice and I'm not!) is that he's an accomplished instrumentalist and I'm just a frustrated hack...although I DO keep on trying to create something of REAL value. Matter of fact, I'd bet that most of my fellow Ancients, on this forum, are probably not your average money-grubbing Yuppies, living in gated communities and squirting out "latchkey kidz" because everyone else is. These days, the more radical among us are called "counterculture"...at least, when we're not being called "tree-huggers", "elitists" and far worse by those who want to pull us down into the cesspools of Ignorance and superstition they dwell in...happily. And, while I have seen some pretty disturbing-looking trends in your generation's fashions & music, I have, also, been heartened to discover that there are young people who, actually, seem to give a damn and they give me a slight bit of Hope...even if there are far too few of them extant. I call 'em "Second Generation Hippies"...and I hope they make a better job of it than my generation did.

Sadly, Life wears us ALL down, sooner or later, but stay strong and don't succumb to peer-pressure...even when those around you start to "sell-out". There was a time, many centuries ago, when I used to wish that I "fit in" better with my peers (never did, incidentally: I was even "weird" as a boy!)...but then, I came to realize that there was precious little about them that I cared to emulate.

May it always be the same for you and others like you!

Meanwhile: welcome to the New Dark Ages!!!

Ian

Regarding the commercial nature of music, while it seems more prevalent today, I've always felt that it has always existed, the difference is what was commercial crap from the 20's on generally doesn't stand the test of time - I would like to think 50 yrs from now a Corey Harris, etc. will be remembered more so than a Britney Spears - pop music just tends to be dated and doesn't maintain its relevance. It's probably more noticeable now because of how much more widespread everything is due to more media outlets, technology, etc. There's still good music out there, it just doesn't get rammed down your throat.

As far as fashion, I wasn't alive then and am no history expert, but I would guess the dressing down of America started around the 40's and 50's with the advent of the denim jeans, coupled with the need of each generation to rebel against its predecessors. The 60's brought long hair, bad grooming habits, etc., the 70's god awful fashions and the "anarchist" punk movement, the 80's were more of the same, and on and on until today where the way to rebel is to cover yourself head to toe with tatoos and metal sticking out of your skin. Music, similarly is driven by the need to rebel, but rather than doing it creatively via the music younger "musicians" today rely on shock value, looking like whores, profanity, gangsterism, etc. and the music execs are more than happy to propegate it as long as it sells. You wonder how much lower you can go before we bottom out.

There is currently a mantra in this country that by a coalition of world governments, we can achieve incredible good. That's true, such a coalition can. But it probably won't. Because nowhere in human history has a coalition of governments of any sort consistently achieved anything except a lot of grief for people who are otherwise minding their own business.

The Peace of Westphalia, which earmarked the conclusion of the 30 Years War, recognized both the old Church with the new and was intended to end all wars. That was a concerted effort of European governments (such as they were in the 16th century) and it amounted to nothing that lasted. Except the creation of Germanic nation-states, and didn't that work out dandy?

The problem isn't good intentions gone awry, it's that governing organizations are comprised of human beings. And we all know what bastards ambitious humans can be. For as long as there are greedy, ambitious people, and I suspect that will be for a long, long time, there is very little likelihood that any "government" - largely comprised of such individuals - will achieve anything good that endures.

Rather, the potential for great mischief remains a constant, and more often than not that is the chosen option.

Yeah, the '60s were a great time for idealism. But idealism doesn't have to involve reality in its calculus to be appealing. Pragmatism doesn't seek to be appealing, it only seeks to accord with reality.

If we want to achieve anything good in this world, it will be at the behest of folks like you and me. We don't have the resources the feed the hungry, or to clothe a third world country, or to relieve some god-forsaken region of a drought. We can only bring pressure to bear on our and other governments to do these things - and the result will always be imperfect.

Reality.

Now, where is the hopeful side of my message? Does there really have to be one? G.W. is steadfastly optimistic in the face of a released intelligence report consistenly pessimistic about prospects in Iraq. Does anyone compliment him for that? Or doesn't that make him look like an idiot?

The thinking appears to be: Americans can't cope with reality. So put a smiley-face on it.

Sorry, folks. I'm not going to blow sunshine up anyone's ass. Neither should your government. Neither should your idealists. We should talk about what works! Not about what should work, or what is the most fair. And then move from there... how to accord with Constitutional protections, how to protect individual liberties, etc. How to maintain workable relations with other other government. But all on the basis of reality. Not idealism.

Now, how does my little speech accord with what Blu, and Crump, and mando, and Ian, et al said? Simply this: you pull off that government-sanctioned smiley face and say, No more of this, and you truly have parted ways with the '60s.

Now you're thinking on your own. And you may not like the world as it is... there are a shitload of greedy people out there, and their interest is always diametrically opposed to your interest... but that's how it is, folks. And whether you can see it or not, there is hope in that message.

No smiley faces, folks. Just...

"You can change your clothes, you can change your style
You can change your look, If you'd only smile
You can change the picture hangin' on the wall
But if you change your mind, mind, mind,
you can change it all...

You can change the channel, you can change the scene
you can change the manual labor into a new machine
you can change directions, if you got the balls
But if you change your mind, mind, mind you can change it all

(bridge)
Well, just one little change in your attitude
starts a chain-reaction forward and goes backward too
you'll be wonderin' why you wasted all your precious time
when all you need to do is change your mind, mind, mind

You can change your love, you can change your life
you can change your money, any day or night
you can change the habits, make you stumble & fall
But if you change your mind, mind, mind you can change it all"
(Sorry to quote my own song, but it just seemed so fitting...)

*Available on Armadillo Records - Burnside Dist. throughout the USA

The Beatles with the mop hair, Beatle Boots, Nehru Jackets, Frank Zappa wearing a dress. Alice Cooper, we also had even backing up s few steps, Johnny Cash as The Man in Black, David Bowie as Ziggie Stardust opened the door for a rash of "Freaks" Iggy Popp, The Sex Pistols, Marilyn Manson, Nine Inch Nails.

DOG.......

Approximately 3 months after 9/11 Alan Dershowitz was on T.V. advocating the torture of significant personalities associated with Al Quaida. I turned to my wife and asked her, "Did you put LSD in my tea?"

Yeah, trauma has a way of doing that to folks.

Dog.

P.S. For those who may have forgotten, Alan Dershowitz is the Havard Law School attorney/professor who viciously portrayed L.A. police practices as violating the civil rights of his most innocent client, the inimitable O.J. Simpson.

An inert president is far preferrable to one that makes decisions, has them proven wrong, and yet sticks by his actions w/ out changing or adapting his views a la the intelligent man. And THEN is called noble and steadfast.

Cheney has a pointy tail and carries a pitchfork and is one of only a handful of congressmen who back in the 80's voted not to extend the Civil Rights act, which was a largely symbolic vote cuz they figured who would vote against it ? Maybe he has a pointy hood too ?

At 40 yrs old I fall right in between the last of the boomers and the first of Gen X depending on what chart you look at. I'm goin' w/ Gen X thanks all the same. The 60's were as much about Paul Revere and the Raiders and The Association as they were about Hendrix and "we're gonna change the world man !" In a couple years y'all actually will, by bankrupting us while we wipe spittle off your chins and wheel ya down the hallway. And remember we don't have that budget surplus anymore so as far as Social Security is concerned plan accordingly...

I hate to vote for Kerry this year but,There's not a whole lot of choice.
I guess I could always write in my vote.

and enough with the photos already,
My computer is starting to get that "Old man" smell.

Betcha you were the Class Clown...before you dropped out of grade-school.

Your parents must be proud!

And: I noticed that you are, yet, another one who, evidently, likes to snipe at others from the oh-so-safe buffer of anonymity you're hiding behind. Your NON-profile, here, says it all, bubba!

Even the email address you supplied is fake!!!

Wonder how many OTHER alter-egos you're posting under, here? Hmmmmmm?

Me? I've always thought that if one was too cowardly to sign a letter with one's real name, one shouldn't bother sending it.

And, most certainly, no one should pay such "anonymous" crap any mind.

Food for thought, Slimmy!

Methinks I smells a TROLL...

...who is even smellier than my Ancientness!

And what is the mantra about such minor irritations?

Repeat after me, class:

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!!!

Ian

Not from me, certainly! I'll be ignoring the troll for the remainder of this thread's life. Hey: the moderators already have an excuse to lock this one down...not that they seem to need such! After all, we've already gone from on-stage attire through political commentary.

And: 'National's haven't been mentioned even ONCE in this thread!

The horror! The HORROR!!!

Ian

WARNING, political content.

Government is not a business. It is there to provide infrastructure, defense, education, law making and enforcement, and (yes) care for those who can't care for themselves (or have limited means). None of these things will get you a profit. As a matter of fact, govenment in the US usually runs at a deficit. When government runs a surplus, that's a "rainy day" fund. The money doesn't belong to the taxpayers, but the government does. Too often, we make the mistake of returning money to taxpayers in good times and then there is no fund to get us through a recession. Money in government is a zero-sum game (or it should be). Whatever gets spent is whatever gets put in. I think your beef is over spending it wisely - which is exactly my beef.

The welfare budget is not (and never has been) that large compared with other entitlement programs (e.g., Social Security/Medicare) , military spending, and pork barrel projects (for the benefit of our non-US reader this is specious spending on pet projects to garner votes). Welfare used to be known as AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent children) - read single mothers with kids. Most of the welfare budget is spent on those kids. Blaming welfare mothers for government spending problems was a red herring spewed out by the Reagan administration to hide the profligate spending on military programs.

On stage I tend to wear all black, with the exception of my boots, and belt. I'll try to put up a picture later. Even if it means I'll be at risk of the walking talking computer keyboard typing sphincter muscle.

MODERATORS, please don't lock up this thread....it's not hard to figure out, everyone else shouldn't be deprived because of one instigator. Troll is probably not the right 5 letters.

AWK!!!

Administrator Freed is back!!!

Quick: hide your wimmens & joolree!!! He'll sell 'em all off for another exotic geetar!!!

(and just when i thought it was safe to be a wise-ass!!!)

Ian,
Trembling In Fear
(No, really!)

2) my previous posts... i haven't posted to this thread previously and usually i post to music threads and don't get into political disagreements so i'm wondering what other posts you could refer me to that illustrate my contentious nature. i think people around here that know me would say i'm about as uncontentious a person as you'd ever meet and if you think that that the possibility of having to talk to me at IGS is so daunting that you have to go somewhere else i assure you that if you let me know you're coming ahead of time i'll make sure not to say a word to you.

3) does it suck to be me? sometimes but mostly i'm happy to be me. and what's the deal about reaching an "age such as mine?" how old do you think i am? and i do really wonder what are the contentious previous posts i've made to bring you to the point of being honored to "annoy" me (i'm not annoyed by the way) and what are my fanatical positions? that an american citizen should get off his...um...chair..and vote?

Following this election from over here in Norseman Land, (via TV, radio, US internet newspapers, TIME magazine which I subscribe to, etc) I have to say it looks like a strange election to me. Having to choose between only two candidates (yeah, I know about Nader too, but....) seem a bit narrow to me, but I realize that's how it's always been. Especially this year, when the polarization of the public is so obvious, yet the two candidates seems to be closer to each other than any of them are willing to admit (for obvious reasons), it seems like more real choices would have been a good thing.
Okay, I know who I would have voted for if I've had the right to do so, but it would definitely have been a vote against the other, rather than for the one I'd chosen to vote for (if that doesn't make any sense, please blame it on the fact that it's 6:30 in the morning over here..).

Guess it's just that I'm used to having +/- 10-12 political parties to choose between, from the far right to the far left, and even if the major ones are starting to look suspiciously alike here too, at least there's more of a choice.

In one way I must say I find it hard to blame people who stay at home, considering the choices, but on the other hand I guess it's never been more important for to vote than now, considering the current situation. So as usual I agree with just about everyone......

G'nite!
Steinar

[This message has been edited by Steinar Gregertsen (edited September 17, 2004).]