If Al Quaeda is coming in, that's how they're doing it.

Why was Kerry debating that guy last night ? I thought he was supposed to debate President Cheney ?

BTW Bush looked like complete and utter shite in that debate last night and he'll still probably win !

About americans being naive... I don't know, but it seems to me that they are more prone to believing what they are told and not so keen and curious about their foreign politics, even at their recent one.
Which is a real shame.

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"I'm Big Mike Simpson Who-the-fuck are YOU?"

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Sorry: is that supposed to mean something to me???

When you keep referring to those of us who are clearheaded enough to see Bush for the scumbag he is as "bleeding heart liberals", yes I stand with the "BHL"s on this one. (Incidentally: "bleeding heart liberal" is such a dated term. Try coming up with something a bit more original.) I AM "liberal" about some things...downright radical, in fact. However, my "liberal" acquaintances would be horrified by my views on other issues, where I consider them to be dangerously naïve.

And about the only time my heart (or, what's left of it!) "bleeds" is when I see someone abusing an animal...or when I read the latest list of casualties of young men & women who have died in vain because a lying bastard decided he wanted a war with Iraq for his own self-serving reasons. Having fought in another stupid war and having seen what I saw, the loss of these lives for the glory of Bush & his fellow criminals is tragic! And this bastard won't even allow the homecoming of their caskets at Dover A.F.B. to be witnessed so that we can honor them in our own way? This verges on the sacrilegious. And is VERY "un-American"! Then again, what would Bush know about any of this? Unlike Kerry, he served in a "champagne unit" of the National Guard.

What proves to me how brain-dead the country of my birth has become is the fact that this criminal hasn't been impeached, removed from office, tried, convicted and imprisoned for HIS crimes against the American people! About the only time you can be sure that Bush isn't lying about something is when his simian mouth is firmly shut!

So, I'm not "bleeding heart liberal" just a freethinking man who doesn't follow any given party-line and is devoutly against Bush because he has been nothing but bad for the U.S. and the rest of the countries we share this planet with!

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Originally posted by frank de franceschi:
All the above examples (and more) have happened, and happen every day. And I'm not talkin' about Cat Stevens, but about so called "normal" citizens.

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Yep, that's true. Even with a nice new electronic passport and all other papers in order, you can still be sent on the first flight home, with no exlanation, if the customs officer decide not to 'like' you. It has happened to many, and if I were to visit friends in the US, or attend IGS, or something, I would not know whether I'd be let in or not before I'm actually there.
Does not encourage travels between our nations.........

Steinar

I'm also an American. Being American to me means not being afraid. It bothers me that those who count themselves as patriotic allow themselves to be ruled by fear. We Americans live in a huge powerful country that has been attacked directly only 3 times since the beginning ot the 19th century (War of 1812, WWII, and 9/11). I don't count the war with Mexico over Texas because we initiated that one. Our largest casualty count came when we were warring with each other (American Civil War).

I'm old enough to have lived through 2 major fear cycles. We are now in the middle of an era that may be more repressive than the McCarthy era of the 50s. I am fearful, but my fear is that our great republic is deteriorating into a system that moves against our traditional American inner strength.

Kay,

Ian, I did not address you. I did not read your previous post.
You attacked me for what I posted.
I responded with a quote from your attack.

By all means get out and vote for whoever you all want for President.
It's the American way.

Bye now...

Private message to Steinar from Ian:

Don't even bother trying to enter the US. I've already notified The Authorities about you. I sure-as-hell don't want any friggin' Viking Marauders invading my home and plundering my guitars...
...or my 'Kurzweil'!!!

Beware, you Norski Barbarian: you have been warned!!!

Ian,- I bet they won't be monitoring the harbours for small Norski rowing boats, so you just watch out!

Steinar

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Originally posted by John B:
It's the damndest thing... I was in San Francisco last weekend and I SWEAR I saw a small viking boat, slowly rowing through the choppy waves.

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Oh, that was probably my cousin Hagbart The Hunk and his band,- they should have returned two weeks ago, never been any good at rowing. But he plays a mean lap steel......

Steinar

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"Oh, that was probably my cousin Hagbart The Hunk ..."

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Dear gawd! You mean there's MORE of you, Gregertsens, the scourges of the northern waters???

Quick folks: hide yer wimmens...and yer guitars!!!

Ian

That's incredible!!!

Incredibly HORRIBLE!!!

It looks like something right out of the late '30s: a German propaganda poster!!!

Is that for real...or is it satire???

Ian

"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies and pause to America's friends."

You are correct to note that the presidency is only one branch of government. Unfortunately, our govenment has been nearly taken over by conservative and reactionary factions. Even some of the Democrats are moving dangerously close to the right (e.g., Lieberman). Our government works best when no one party has control of the system. That keeps things in balance and prevents congress and the president from enacting ideologically-based laws (and keeps the courts from approving them). The President has the ability to introduce legislation, run the military, issue special presidential orders, and appoint federal judges. If the legislative and judicial branches are disposed toward rubbeer-stamping the President's wishes, he has de facto absolute power.

You are incorrect about us old hippies. We can get plenty angry and fight when challenged. My generation did more than sex and drugs and rock. Too many think of the 60s as some sort of bucolic, misty time. They were not. They were a time of tremendous upheaval. It was an us-vs-them situation. Where I grew up, you had to be tough to wear your hair long.

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Originally posted by AZLBRAX:
It looks like something right out of the late '30s: a German propaganda poster!!!

Is that for real...or is it satire???

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IMHO the artist is spot on, especially with messages like these:

Hmmmm...what party controls the House and the Senate ?

And there isn't 500 people who control things in Washington, there are less than 10 and the quick and easy name for them is neo-cons. They have not even a tiny bit to do w/ the average O'Reilly/Limbaugh(filthy druggy)/Sean Hannity listener. These guys are so beyond you and the legions of anvil-heads who know Bush is wrong but really admire him for his steadfastness and glorious speech on the deck of that carrier. They want a marching juggernaut of democracy all over the world, country by country, no matter what the inhabitants of those countries want.

It's their duty ordained by their racist, old white man, "things were better in the old days", protestant God.

Pro-Life ? How man convicts (...'the least of my brothers' - GOD) did Bush kill ?

Somebody lock this thread down before another couple of right-wing wackos (McVeigh and Nichols) drive a truck full of fertilizer into it.

[This message has been edited by eskimo (edited 10-01-2004).]

[This message has been edited by eskimo (edited 10-01-2004).]

I was just goofing on the whole tone of this thread right now. I suspect you and I are fairly close in age (I'll be 47 on Mon.) and I grew up in that conservative stronghold of Ol' NH. And I also remember the treatment some of the long-hairs got back in the 60's. Nothing too severe, but they definitely got looks. Me...I grew up with the nice flat-top and the f*&k you glasses. You remember those dontcha?.....if you were wearing these glasses and asked a girl out, she'd just take one look at those glasses and say "f%#k you !". Hornrim glasses I think they're called.....anyway, I was just trying to lighten the tone a bit is all.

Sorry I misread the tone of your message. It's sometines hard to tell whether someone is being sarcastic or serious when you read them instead of hearing voice inflections and seeing body language.

There are only a few days left until the election that will determine the next President of the United States. The man elected will be the President of all Americans, not just the Democrats or Republicans.

To show our solidarity as Americans, let us all unite and show our support for the candidate of our choice.

If you support John Kerry please drive with your headlights on during the day.
If you support President George W. Bush please drive with your headlights OFF after dark.

resin8er-

I realize that you're just trying to bait me...but, for fun, I'll play along:

First, I would suggest that the US stops its insane immigration policies. Why are we trying to give illegal aliens anything but a free trip back to their native countries? Yet, some politically-correct types would have us give them US drivers' licenses and benefits usually only accorded US citizens. While your tax-dollars pay for this! Why? (Incidentally, I would drop the "favored" status of Cubans and send them ALL back to Fidel! The "wet-foot/ dry-foot" policy is a sick joke...at the EXPENSE of the American taxpayers.) There is something totally hypocritcal about allowing Cubans who make it to US soil to stay...with "perks" from your taxes, incidentally...while sending just about all the Haitians back. So, let's stop encouraging ANY of these countries to enter the US illegally. They should work out their own problems and quit looking to the US for handouts...and "we" should start taking care of "our" own before "we" start trying to save the world. "Our" educational system is in shambles and "we" are turning out functional illerates who can barely read or do basic math. "Our" own citizens don't ALL even have basic health-care coverage. Yet, "we" have millions to waste on a country, like Iraq, where the majority hate & resent us! Why? What's wrong with this picture?

Why are "we" trying to save the rest of the world when "our" own are suffering?

Second, I would tighten down the Mexican - US and Canadian - US borders. These are obvious choices for potential Jihadists to use to get into the US. ANYBODY trying to enter the US through these routes...as well as others...including those holding US passports... would have to expect extreme...but COURTEOUS...scrutiny...NOT the arrogant attitude one may encounter from some minimum-wage flunky in a nifty uniform.

Third, I would quit pretending that everything is fine and that the US is much-loved throughout the rest of the world. "We" are largely despised...thanks to "our" arrogance. I think that it's time "we" except this reality and deal with it. Not by being truculant assholes, like Bush, but by being more cautious in "our" dealings with others. "We" MIGHT, actually, be able to gain some GENUINE respect from the rest of the world by acting more like brothers than overlords and bullies who throw money at every problem to "fix" it.

Forth, I would reject ANYONE from running for office who wanted to. Politicians are absolutely the WORST choices to run the show. They are self-serving liars and not much else! In some ancient cultures, the king was chosen by the people...and he was never too happy at being chosen. Why? Because he would rule for a year...and then, be sacrificed. This is a policy we should reinstate!

Fifth, I think that any "prezzidunce" who wants to make war on another country should be required to be in the front lines, leading the attack...not sitting safe at home, coddled and protected, while he or she sends others off to die. You want to be "commander-in-chief", then you'd better DAMNED WELL do more than put on a flight-suit and proclaim "Mission Accomplished"!

Thanks to the criminal, Bush, the US is thoroughly alienated from the rest of the world. I think it's time "we" deal with this unpleasant reality and start looking after "our" own before "we" ship "our" jobs and resources elsewhere.

Oh: and, maybe, it would be a good idea to start concentrating on the REAL terrorists, rather than a third-rate...but convenient...dictator, like Saddam. Why is Bin Laden still walking the earth? Are we so pathetic that we can't run him to ground and parade his head on the end of a stick? Or is the "capture" of Bin Laden going to be Bush's "October Surprise"?

Plus: let's get "real" about Israel. This "country" is NOT our friend and has only been playing us and American Jews. The entire Middle East...Israel included...should be left to stew in its own juices. Let them rip each others' throats out...and leave the rest of us in Peace.

And: speaking of the Middle East and "our" dependency on oil? Isn't it about time "we" concentrated on alternate...and clean...fuel sources that don't depend on exports from people who hate "us" and use the profits "we" give them to finance the Jihadists? The technology for alternative power already exists. If Big Oil didn't keep throwing monkey-wrenches into the works, "we" COULD become petrol-free in a very short time-frame!

One last thing: the next time "they" behead one of ours, I think we should round up ten of "theirs" and return the favor. Dealing "reasonably" with "religious" fantatics, like this, ain't gonna work. You have to make the price for their terrorism too high for them to bear. How about executing their families, for instance? Oh, right: "we", Murkans, are too evolved and noble...and squeamish...to do such "terrible" things in retaliation for their atrocities. Well, guess what: these fanatics count on this. (A quick example: during the Russian - Afghanistan conflict, Al Quida tried the same kinds of tactics: mutilating & executing Russians to try and instill fear. Well, one Russian commander ["spetznats"] had a solution: he rounded up the local Al Quaida leader...and his family...and had them tortured, mutilated and killed...and then dumped their bodies in the local town-square. Guess what: the Al Quida attacks stopped immediately! Hmmm!)

Don't fool yourself: there is no way this is going to be resolved "reasonably"...and trying to placate such beasts will only make "us" appear "weak" and encourage them to further outrages.

However, this DOESN'T mean that "we" have to hand over "our" personal freedoms to the likes of Bush & Ashcroft. "We" just need to be strong and "fight fire with fire", while protecting "our" own citizens' rights. What the present adminstration is trying to do is nothing more than to set up the groundwork for a dictatorship...in the interests of "national security", of course!

See? I'm not quite the "bleeding-heart liberal" some of you right-wing, brain-dead numb-skulls think I am.

So sorry if some of the rest of you are shocked by my suggestions!

Ian

I have to leave right now, but I would like to elaborate a little on Ian's post. Such as how we deal with the crime situation in this country, and the way the courts, and judicial system works, or should I say doesn't work.

And on medical insurance, or the present lack of it. Medicine is BIG business...if you don't think so, take a ride in an ambulance, go to the emergency room..and stay in a hospital for an overnight visit...then tell me your bill isn't like one of those 3000.00 toilet seats the government spends money on....there is something terribly wrong with this system, and how we just don't have taking care of our own as a PRIORITY.

I still think we have good education, if you can afford the private schools and colleges...but for the public school system, that is partially federal and state/town funded...that's where the cutbacks on the programs come from.

Not to mention how food is taken out of the mouths of the poor here at home...but we can waste billions on foriegn "intrests".

And what percentage of the American people are doing this, and in control of the power of our government....let's just say you'll see a lot of the names on the Forbes list of the most wealthiest.

Unfortunately, the land of the free, and liberty is like a double edged sword...and there are a lot of people who use that to erode our good points...and it's always over power, and greed.

don't depend on exports from people who hate "us" and use the profits "we" give them to finance the Jihadists?

And don't forget that those same profits fund the big-business interests that both enrich and keep in power the likes of the Bush clan and their cronies.

Other than that, some serious mental nutrition in your post, although some of it (like all the best medicine) is unpalatable...

This article from today's 'Guardian' (UK daily broadsheet) might interest you.

I just got online a couple of minutes ago to order your CD. I took a peak at this forum and there you were. If any of you aren't familiar with Antoine's work, he is a superb guitarist with a CD out that is available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/payen. It's a real independent approach. No big companies involved.

Thank you for your work!

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Originally posted by AZLBRAX:
Plus: let's get "real" about Israel. This "country" is NOT our friend and has only been playing us and American Jews. The entire Middle East...Israel included...should be left to stew in its own juices. Let them rip each others' throats out...and leave the rest of us in Peace.

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Azlbrax For President!! Its Bizzare How US Jews who essentially are nice liberals can support a Government ran by Rabid right wingers and religious fanatics. Plus Their leader Committed Genocide (Do Americans Know about that?)
Somehow I think these shady characters wont mind shipping the entire pouplation of Palestine to Madagascar (No offence to any Jewish people reading)

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Originally posted by AZLBRAX:
One last thing: the next time "they" behead one of ours, I think we should round up ten of "theirs" and return the favor. Dealing "reasonably" with "religious" fantatics, like this, ain't gonna work. You have to make the price for their terrorism too high for them to bear. How about executing their families, for instance? Oh, right: "we", Murkans, are too evolved and noble...and squeamish...to do such "terrible" things in retaliation for their atrocities. Well, guess what: these fanatics count on this. (A quick example: during the Russian - Afghanistan conflict, Al Quida tried the same kinds of tactics: mutilating & executing Russians to try and instill fear. Well, one Russian commander ["spetznats"] had a solution: he rounded up the local Al Quaida leader...and his family...and had them tortured, mutilated and killed...and then dumped their bodies in the local town-square. Guess what: the Al Quida attacks stopped immediately! Hmmm!)

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AZLBRAX Not for president!! This will definately not work, only make things worse. They actually tried this in Northern Ireland and only created more supporters for the IRA. A common misjudgement is that they are all "religious nutcases". In fact a lot are just nutcases killing people for other reasons e.g the reason Bin Laden started to attack the US was bacause their troops were situated in Saudi Arabia. Osama isnt really fighting because of religion, hes a MILLIONAIRE which IS AGAINST ISLAM.
AZLBRAX - somehow I think twenty years ago you would be calling the soviets Murderers.

Steinar