quote:

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Originally posted by PeterG:
Antoine:

I just got online a couple of minutes ago to order your CD. I took a peak at this forum and there you were. If any of you aren't familiar with Antoine's work, he is a superb guitarist with a CD out that is available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/payen. It's a real independent approach. No big companies involved.

Thank you for your work!

Now you can all get back to the global madness.

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Thank you so much PeterG ! I really hope you'll like my music. And yes, it's all independant material, home-composed, home-recorded and home-produced !
Try this also : http://antoine.payen.free.fr/, and listen to my twelve-string guitar rag !

Antoine 'HotDog'

[This message has been edited by Antoine (edited 10-02-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Antoine (edited 10-02-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Antoine (edited 10-02-2004).]

I was reading about a CD giveaway campaign targeted to thousands of american youths by Panzerfaust Records this morning. And there you go, spreading hate, a totally protected right. My thought was, why wouldn't Al Quida not pour their resoursces into any activity that gangs and skinheads do to kill other americans for them. What a great scheme. I'm sure on some level they may even be arming and funding our youth already. Who knows.

A wise Native American once said, and I'll paraphrase: "To know the health of a tribe, observe their children". He/she wasn't talking about smallpox.

Our children I fear maybe our enemy's best long term investment. I also feel as if we are serving the kids on a silver platter to anyone that wants to exploit and outsource them.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tim Mitchell:
feels a lot like Germany in say 1934 or 35......."

yeah, asking for some positive ID at the airport and tracking vistors to a country is just about equal to stuffing 6 million jews into ovens.

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If you had read earlie posted you would have seen;

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Brozman
[B]there are few, if any, legitimate comparisons that can be made between the USA today, and Germany of '34-'35. "

OK, you are right, I should have said 1932.....not 34-35. Things are not that bad....yet.

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I doubt anyone was suggesting that a comparison between them in this respect. I dont think its not a good comparison myself BUT the USA is turning into a kind of North Korea lite

[This message has been edited by marty (edited 10-02-2004).]

As an Irishman what goes on in your crazy country shouldn't bother me...but it does. I kinda thnk that Bush Vs Kerry - its not that important. Some folks over here say that the democrats don't really want this election - They'll only end up as pooper scoopers in Iraq.

But The real question is where is this going in the end....So Bush gets in for four more years and continues on with his lunatic policies, or Kerry gets in and trys to clean up some of the shit and maybe pull the country back together economically (big budget deficit remember!). But if the Democrats lose 2008 (If Iraq goes to crap and he has to pull out without "success" 2008 looks bleak!) are we back to the start again?

Its a pickle.....will a vote for either guy bring about REAL change??

2 party system - whats the difference between the 2.

Where's the real choice?

Maybe its time for a few more options on the political circuit - after all - You are all open to fresh alternatives and free thinking aren't you?

Have to study now -

Oh Jeff Lang for IGS 2005 - Monster on the Guitar - Godzilla!!!!!

John P
Ireland

[This message has been edited by john.p (edited 10-02-2004).]

Remember, in a very real way the blood of 1,000+ is on the hands of Nader and the Greenies. The local head of the Greens here has explicitly told all of the party members and their followers to vote for Kerry this time. A little too late but at least it's been said to them. I go along w/ a lot of their tenets but facts are facts : Bush and Cheney are ruining this country.

"yeah, asking for some positive ID at the airport and tracking vistors to a country is just about equal to stuffing 6 million jews into ovens. "

A: that did not start until AFTER 1935.
B: Marty already posted a response, quoting my earlier response, changing it to 1932
C. Prescott Bush profited from banking for the steel companies that MADE those ovens
D: I sure wish my Holocaust victim relatives had spoken up in the early 30s.

Things heading in a direction are not already there.

America is really giving a crappy example of freedom to the world, look at Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib.

-------
There are two words I would really have liked to hear Kerry say: SAUDI ARABIA.

The strongest charge against Bush for NOT protecting America is still this:

allowing the 140 Saudi nationals (including 24 Bin Laden family members) to fly home during the 5 day no-fly period Sept 11-16, without being questioned. I wish Kerry had said something about this. Makes one wonder if BOTH sides are in bed with the Saudis.

Five times as many Democrats voted for Bush as Greens for Nader. Glass houses, dude. Throwing blame and blood around is not going to get you very far.

quote:

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We Americans live in a huge powerful country that has been attacked directly only 3 times since the beginning ot the 19th century (War of 1812, WWII, and 9/11). I don't count the war with Mexico over Texas because we initiated that one.

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Actually, the US started the whole War of 1812 business as well. Just trying to stir things up!

BTW I want all that nice land in NY state back that was stolen from my Loyalist ancestors. If I could sell it I could go to IGS and get a bunch o new Nationals.

"Plenty of battles have been fought and plenty of people have died so you and I can enjoy our beloved freedom right here in the good old U.S. of A. Just be glad that you live in a country where you're free to bash the president because if you were living under the rule of a dictator you would be shot in the head."

What am I supposed to DO with that, just keep quiet? A lot of soldiers have died indeed, and I certainly mean plenty of respect for their memory--but follow the money of each war of the last century, and see how in each war, the sons of the profiteers seemed to survive.....

How much freedom do the disenfranchised (economically, educationally, informationally, culturally, racially, etc) in america really have? Gee, I am so glad not to be shot in the head for saying this, I feel SOOOOOO free!

Now, CONVINCE ME (with FACTS, please): how DO WE HAVE MORE FREEDOM THAN WE HAD 4 YEARS AGO? Or even, HOW are we better off as a nation, both at home and in the world?? I await your response, with an open mind.
respectfully,

quote:

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" 'An eye for an eye' will only make the whole world go blind......."

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That's a nice thought Steinar. To which I would reply that turning the other cheek will only end up getting you two very sore cheeks!

Do you think that I am happy to suggest fighting fire with fire? It sickens me, frankly, to have come to the conclusions that I have. Unfortunately, one can NOT be "reasonable" with unreasonable people or situations...and the Jihadists have already established the "rules of engagement". In stating what you did, you are making the mistake of trying to apply Christian European "values" to a culture that sees such attitudes as nothing but weakness.
And weakness inspires bullies to further atrocities.

Has anyone else noticed that, for the last 20-or-so years, just about every little "fire-fight" you hear about involves the Jihadists on one side of the problem? Jihadists against Jews, against Christians...even against Hindus and Buddhists. This so-called "jihad" is, already, well in progress, yet no one seems to have noticed. And it's working! The strategy, here, reminds me of the Chinese form of execution called the "Death Of A Thousand Cuts": the one sentenced to die was immobilized and given one small...but painful...cut after another. None of the individual wounds were enough to kill...but, after hours (or days!) of suffering, eventually the victim would bleed to death.

So, around the world, all these "little" wars are ongoing...and "the rest of us" have our resources spread too thin and we are kept off-balance...and in Fear. Eventually, we are forced to adopt more draconian measures to deal with this...which, of course, works to the advantage of would-be "dictators" who are free to curb civil liberties in the name of "national security".
But, no matter what approach is taken...draconian or reasonble...these ignorant beasts will NEVER be satisfied! Why? They don't want Peace. They only want the entire world to bow to their twisted brand of Islam and submit. If we try to appease them, they only laugh at us and are encouraged to even more drastic forms of brutality. If we respond in kind, they whine about this proves that we are as "evil" as they claim.

Since it's a "no-win' situation, we may as well learn to deal with them on their own terms.
The Jihadists threaten to behead more people if certain prisoners aren't released? We counter by making it clear that if they behead anyone else, we will take every one of those prisoners...male or female...put them in front of a camera, stripped naked (which is particularly offensive to that culture), torture them by hacking fingers, then limbs, off until the captives are released. And if the Jihadists follow through, we behead the prisoners...but slowly, with a saw, rather than a sword, stick the heads on a pole...and then round up their families for more of the same.

This is the ONLY "language" such savages understand.

And contrary to what we were taught as children, sometimes you DO have to "go down to their level" because it's all that will make an impression.

Sometimes, one has to become a savage in order to deal with savages!

I'm not happy about this...but that's just the way things are!

Ian

quote:

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Originally posted by AZLBRAX:

That's a nice thought Steinar. To which I would reply that turning the other cheek will only end up getting you two very sore cheeks!...........................
And weakness inspires bullies to further atrocities.

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That last line sounds 'almost' like Bush!
I'm NOT talking about 'turning the other cheek' or anything like that. I'm talking about leading a politic based on the principle of revenge. OF COURSE the fundamentalist terrorists needs to be tracked down and captured or killed. When/if Bin Laden is captured you may gut him on a public square for all I care,- but saying that "whenever one of ours are killed, let's kill ten of theirs" sounds like the idea of blind revenge, not unlike what's going on in the Israel/Palestine conflict, and see how much 'safer' Israel is because of it.......
Don't confuse rational reasoning with weakness Ian.

Steinar

David M-

Get your facts straight before you post. I only noted that a certain person who shall not be named was using multiple identities on this forum because the rhetoric...or should I say infantile filth...was so similar with each. I never said or implied that he was doing this "...just to get at..." me.

And even if this were true, I could care less!

However, this person was, also, taking shots at others...NOT just me, please don't forget!

Steinar-

No my statement about what inspires bullies to more violence wasn't even remotely "Bushian"...just based on my personal observations, over my Life. It has...sadly...been my repeated observation that, when confronted with kindess and reason, 99% of the bullies in the world take this for weakness, which inspires even greater cruelty from them.

As for revenge: what's wrong with revenge? It has its place in the scheme of things...even if the concept doesn't fit into some warm-n-cuddly, politically-correct notion of the way things SHOULD be.

And: I wouldn't consider it "revenge" to shoot a rabid dog dead before it could harm others. Nor, would I consider it "revenge" to defend myself or my family if a grizzly bear attacked us. I would take no pleasure in this...but I'll be damned if I would allow myself or my family to be harmed.

Unfortunately, in dealing with these Jihadists, we are NOT dealing with reasonable people. They don't honor the Geneva Convention, don't give a Flying Frog about your Christian scruples or values and think nothing of wholesale suicide bombings that kill & maim noncombatants...even their own countrymen. They are "religious" fanatics and wholesale cowards who hide behind their ski-masks and kidnap and behead others in an attempt to hold the world hostage. Obviously, giving into their demands will NEVER satisfy them and doing so will only embolden them further. As I posted earlier: THEY laid down the "rules" by their actions. We need to follow suit...but make the price THEY pay for their barbaric acts are even more horrible. Unfortunately, we are "handicapped" because they know that we don't have the stomach to be even more brutal than they are. This is nothing but a "war of attrition"...and the only chance we have of "winning" it is to be even more attritious. They have decided that innocent women and children are "fair game", so we should follow their example and start with THEIR wives, mothers and children.

Again: this is the ONLY thing they will understand. Wish this weren't the case, but there it is!

As for my comment sounding like Bush: well, I guess even an idiot, like Cowboy Georgie, can get something right, once in a very great while! (Although I suspect his true motivations for ANYTHING he says or does...no matter how "well-intentioned" it comes across!)

Ian

Now, I know quite a few americans, and I get along with all of them no problem. And it pisses me off when out of America many people tend to classify americans and stick them in one drawer.
My father was bombed by the americans, and put into a death camp by the germans, but he doesn't hate americans nor germans.

But...someone must have elected those White House characters.
And here is when I start getting very very very frustated, as a human being:

-Bush Junior: Afghanistan (a few thousands), Irak (so far who knows?)
-Clinton: Turkey (a few thousands), Colombia (?), Sudan (half a million), Irak (1 million, half a million of them children), Haiti (?), Timor East (2/3 of the population), Indonesia (more than a million)
-Bush Senior: Libano (20.000), Angola (1 million), Mozambique (half a million), Haiti, Colombia, Indonesia, etc.
-Reagan: millions only in South America (El Salvador: 70.000. etc. etc.)

BUT...ARE WE JOKING?
It is YOU who should be represented by those people up there!
What we need is among all at least some knowledge and sense of reality of what is happening. And some very loud speaking.

quote:

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Originally posted by AZLBRAX:

Unfortunately, in dealing with these Jihadists, we are NOT dealing with reasonable people. They don't honor the Geneva Convention, don't give a Flying Frog about your Christian scruples or values and think nothing of wholesale suicide bombings that kill & maim noncombatants...even their own countrymen. They are "religious" fanatics and wholesale cowards who hide behind their ski-masks and kidnap and behead others in an attempt to hold the world hostage. Obviously, giving into their demands will NEVER satisfy them and doing so will only embolden them further. As I posted earlier: THEY laid down the "rules" by their actions. We need to follow suit...but make the price THEY pay for their barbaric acts are even more horrible. Unfortunately, we are "handicapped" because they know that we don't have the stomach to be even more brutal than they are. This is nothing but a "war of attrition"...and the only chance we have of "winning" it is to be even more attritious. They have decided that innocent women and children are "fair game", so we should follow their example and start with THEIR wives, mothers and children.

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Will all due respect,- stop jumping to conclusions about my motives or resoning.

First,- I've never said 'they' are reasonable, but that shouldn't stop us from actually using a part of our brain that they obviously doesn't use.

Second,- 'Christian scruples'?? Why are you bringing my personal faith into all this?? You dissapoint me Ian.... Then you make it sound as if I don't understand what we're dealing with here,- well, that's a well known tactic and it's not new to me. I just didn't expect it from you.
Have I said anything about 'negotiating' with the terrorists or 'giving in to their tactics'? Hell no, I haven't!! I'm talking about using ones brain and trying to be a little smart about this.

Your idea about following their example and murdering their family members is nothing but neanderthal bullshit that I won't even get into. So if my brother should decide to join a Scandinavian Al Quaeda cell (they're in aprox 60 countries, but I suppose you already knew that), then I would be a 'fair' target as well?

I feel nothing but the deepest disgust for 'these people' (whoever they are,- how are you gonna find that out Ian? They blend pretty well with the civilian population... Oh, I forgot,- just kill 'em all, civilians or terrorists, doesn't matter does it?), but you can't fight terrorism as you would a regular army, it doesn't work that way.

Steinar

The “torture them to show we mean business” approach you advocate has been tried to excess in Chechnya and we can see how well that has prevented terrorism in Russia.

Good articles on the subject:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1298703,00.html

http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?file=538399.html

http://bigeye.com/revenge.htm

First: I used the term "Christian values" in GENERAL terms. I have never had a problem with your professed Christianity and I still don't...nor would I attack you personally because of it. So, please don't overreact. Perhaps I should have repeated a term I used earlier: "European Christian values". As in: Christianity was imported into Europe, looooong before the US existed and these "values"...for better or worse...were carried to the "New World" with the earliest emigrés. These "values" are based on forgiveness and turning the other cheek. While well-intentioned, I find such "values" to be naïve...especially when faced with the kind of cowardly "war" the Jihadists are waging. Does this put it in context for you? Trust me: you're being overly defensive about what I wrote...and taking it waaaaaay too personally!

And: one of the things I have ALWAYS liked & respected about you is your intelligence. So, why would I denigrate you and portray you as not understanding "...what we are dealing with here..."? I think you understand the situation just fine. I also think that NONE of us...Europeans or Americans...really understand why our usual methods won't work. In fact, I believe that the Jihadists...and their ilk...use our ignorance to their advantage. We, in the West, look at Saddam and think "Oh, what a terrible man!" But I'd bet that most Middle-Easterners see him as nothing more than one of many.

As for my "...neanderthal bullshit...": reread my earlier posts...preferably with a clear, well-rested brain. When I suggested going after the families of the Jihadists, I was referring SPECIFICALLY to the ones depicted in those grizzly videos. So, unless your brother was one of those who was personally responsible for executing those poor Souls, I don't think you'd be on anybody's hit-list. Certainly not mine! In any event, I was replying to a prior question about what I would do. When given a choice, I always prefer Peace...but not to the point of bowing my head in resignation whenever some bully threatens me or mine and saying "Thy will be done!"

Unfortunately, I know...from personal experience...that truly evil people DON'T learn to reform because someone sets a good example and turns the other cheek. Their hearts are rarely changed and they look at such kindess as nothing more than an opportunity to exploit.

As for how we find these people: I find it kind of curious that, in an age of sophisticated electronic surveillence, we haven't! Plus, there are ALWAYS going to be informers, out there, who can be bought for "20 pieces of silver". So: why is Bin Laden still free and releasing his little tapes? And why are these Jihadists...the ones directly responsible for the recent atrocities...not being dealt with? And why do I get the feeling that there's a subtext at work, here, that NONE of us is even aware of?

Well, except for the puppet-masters pulling the strings, of course!

And when did I ever suggest that we "... just kill 'em all, civilians or terrorists..."? Where did THAT come from, Steinar? Nor, have I ever suggested that we just round up all Moslems and put them in concentration camps...just in case you think that this is where I am going with this topic! I think that one Holocaust was quite enough, thank you...and I have found the "ethnic cleansings" in Eastern Europe and Africa totally reprehensible!

The only thing I would say is that I think it's VERY important for the good & decent people of Islamic faith to come out STRONGLY in denouncing these Jihadists...who make them ALL look bad. And I think they need to do more than just give lip-service: they need to actively help to root out these terrorists wherever they find them.

The world has become a very dangerous place...thanks, mostly, to a bunch of "religious" fanatics. There are no easy solutions, obviously. Unfortunately, I just don't think that being reasonable with such unreasonable beasts is going to accomplish much.

And, no: one can't fight terrorists the way one does a conventional army. In fact, the ONLY way one can deal with such creatures is to exterminate them...sadly, with no Mercy given!

So, instead of reacting to what I wrote as you have, why not share how YOU would handle this situation? Man, if you have a kinder and gentler solution that might work, I'd be the first one in line to support it!

Honest.

Ian

"Some say that I'm a wise man, some say that I am a fool..but it doesn't really matter much to me...I'd be a wise man's fool"

Sorry for the long dribble, but I had to get this off my chest...it pains me to see what I see.

quote:

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Originally posted by AZLBRAX:
......truly evil people DON'T learn to reform because someone sets a good example and turns the other cheek.
.............................................................................................
The only thing I would say is that I think it's VERY important for the good & decent people of Islamic faith to come out STRONGLY in denouncing these Jihadists...who make them ALL look bad.

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The first point,- I don't have any illusions about this happening either. As I wrote; track them down and capture them, kill them if necessary. But I still see punishing or killing innocent civilians as an evil who will only make things worse,- even those who's "guilty by association".
The Israeli army has often bulldozed neighboorhoods of known suicide bombers,- this surely hasn't stopped the recruitment of 'fresh meat', quite the contrary.

The second point,- totally agree, and over here in Norway the pressure on the growing Muslim immigrant community to do just this is quite strong these days.

To be continued on private email...............

Steinar

quote:

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Originally posted by AZLBRAX:
Man, if you have a kinder and gentler solution that might work, I'd be the first one in line to support it!

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Okay, one more.. No, I don't have the solution, but I do have some opinions.
First,- this whole situation has been an accident waiting to happen, for quite some time. In fact, ever since the victorious nations after WWI sat down and shared the whole middle east between themselves. New borders were drawn, totally ignoring the historic, ethnical and religious history of this area. Promises that hade been made by the French and the British towards Palestinians and other Arab nations, in order to make them join them in the fight against the Germans, were almost all broken.
Ever since then, this "use them for what their worth, then throw them to the wolves" thing has been standard procedure for how the west has dealt with these people.
Fast forward,- over generations the frustrations over this situation has grown to hatred and become a huge recruitment ground for religious fanatics. Enter the terrorists.

To deal with this we obviously has to deal with the ACTUAL terrorists in a strong and resolute manner, I have no problems with that. BUT,- it needs to be done in such a way that we don't alienate the moderate Muslims and Arabs. It is crucial to do everything we can to back up the moderate and reforming powers in the Muslim society, because they're there and they are fighting their own struggle. I believe there is an internal struggle going on in Islam these days between the reforming powers and the fundamentalists, and if we play our cards wrong we'll all lose.

quote:

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I also think that NONE of us...Europeans or Americans...really understand why our usual methods won't work.

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Steinar

yeah, and after those "terrorists" saw Saddam's two sons laid out like dirty rags, that insurgency just quieted right down....NOT.

this is the whole problem with the whole "fierce, strong, resolve, all they understand is force" mindset. IT. DOESN'T. WORK. It's really satisfying in the short term, but so is punching the wall if you're mad at your wife.

forget the ideological arguments. from a pragmatic standpoint, the whole "fierce" thing has proven itself, over and over, to be an utter, abject, failure.

Somehow, aboriginal people all over the world have a feeling and philosophy of being PART of the world.
Western people got this bizarre idea that we are APART from, and therefore ABOVE the world. From there objectifying, and then using, and then conquering, enslaving and killing, and polluting, all can be justifed.

A wrong turn taken, unfortunately by the guys with the most technology several centuries ago. The film can't be re-run.

stepping further back:

This "amity towards the home group and enmity towards the "other" guys" thing goes back to the monkeys, at least.

Maybe it all started 3 billion years ago with the first single-celled creatures with a cell membrane, thus engendering a primitive sense of self and other.

"Life is short---be kind."
--Mr Mortality

Okay, Tom: some of you are quick to criticize my...admittedly...draconian solution to this pestilence...and, frankly, I'm not too crazy about it myself! Generally, I'm really more of a "live-and-let-live" kind of person. Unfortunately, in this case, this isn't working. And no: I don't think that the Jihadists were "terrorized" by seeing Saddam's sons on a slab. Rather, I think they saw it as an opportunity to be "outraged" and to, further, justify their malfeasance.

Don't forget: Osama bin Laden thought that Saddam was much too secular and didn't approve of him.

So, why would the Jihadists care about the fate of another petty dictator's sons? After all, much of Middle Eastern...and Western...history is filled with petty dictators brutalizing the citizenry because they can!

Business as usual, nothing more!

My suggestion was based on the idea of bringing the kind of terror these Jihadists are inflicting on others much closer to home. And, admittedly: perhaps this wouldn't work, either. After all, they might rationalize losing close family members by saying that, now, they are in "Paradise" and are blessed "martyrs" to the cause. And, yes: this would, likely inflame them further. However, this could work to our advantage. One thing I learned as a warrior was that if I stayed calm, while my opponent became enraged...and wreckless...more-times-than-not, this fool would react without thinking and leave himself open to a counterattack. And, considering how much many cultures value their firstborn SONS above all else, I think the idea of stripping such a one naked (a further insult!) and proceeding to brutalize him, while the cameras are rolling, might just get the desired effect.

Here's a little factoid that might surprise you: I was antiwar, during Viet Nam...and the only reason I volunteered for service was because I was challenged to do so. How could I DARE to oppose a war I had no firsthand experience of? Well, like Kerry, even though I had a deferment, I decided to find out the truth for myself. And, like Kerry, I came back from that experience even MORE antiwar than I had been originally. I saw my fellow Talking Monkeys at their absolute worst...and most savage. I still remember Aussie troops walking around with necklaces made from ears or penises...and South Vietnamese troops carrying the heads of their enemies, strung together like a bunch of ripe fruit...and laughing about it as they did so. And "Charlie" was every bit as vicious! One of their favorite tricks was to capture a GI and leave him on a trail for us to find, strung up and gutted for all to see. Sometimes with his genitals stuffed in his mouth for good measure. So, we started doing the same. And then, there were the interrogation sessions: beside the beatings, it was popular to hook a prisoners' nipples or genitals up to a battery with the same kind of clips used to jump-start cars and zap the living fuck out of them. Again: this was a cause for great mirth. Or using noncombatants for running target practice: what fun! And the smell of large quantities of blood, viscera, piss and shit...and burning flesh. So, you can trust that I have a better-than-average understanding of "Mans' inhumanity to Man"!

And I found it, all, incredibly disgusting. So, I don't make my suggestions as some dumb-fuck who wants primal "revenge"...or some brain-dead Bushite. I want to see this Madness stop...once and for all.

And if ANYONE here can come up with a more "civilized" way to achieve this, nothing would please me more!

Ian

David M-

Evidently, you have a real problem with me and the only way you can deal with it is to snipe at me.

Enjoy.

In the meantime, do you have anything USEFUL to add to this thread? Or are you only capable of non sequitors?

Your Best Buddy,

Ian

[This message has been edited by resin8er (edited 10-03-2004).]

I totally agree with your latest post. Surprised?

One of the things I find so arrogant about my fellow Talking Monkeys...and their religions...is the way "we" set ourselves above the rest of the Natural World. That it's only here for us to use as we see fit, with no regard for the consequences.

No wonder we're so totally fucked up!!!

And, yes: the "us" versus "them" paranoia goes back to the caves and beyond.

Too bad "we" can't evolve past this primitive mind-set.

(Although I must admit a certain fondness for the Bonobo chimps: they are unique. Why? They settle ALL their disputes with sex: heterosex or homosex, it's all good!)

Speaking only for myself, it was when I finally let go of the religious brainwashing I had been subjected to for the first 16 years of my Life and started to sense the inner-connectedness of EVERYTHING, without some self-serving "religious" leader, claiming to speak for "God" (who seems more like a petulant reflection of Man than anything else!), that I began to sense my infinitesimally insignificant part of the Big Picture.

And you know what? This was, probably, the single most significant "epiphany" I ever experienced. And, instead of feeling scared and alone, I felt liberated!

Go figger!