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  Dearmond pick up advice please

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Author Topic:   Dearmond pick up advice please
Mark McDonald
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Posts: 151
From: Santa Rosa, CA. U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2004
posted 03-20-2006 10:55     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark McDonald   Click Here to Email Mark McDonald     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have this great old 60's Harmony Monterey archtop that is the absolute best slide guitar. I would like to put a pickup on it because it just doesn't mic very well. Of course a Dearmond would be the best but I don't know much about them. I see them on Ebay but I don't know which model would work best. Can anyone offer any advice, possibly from experience? Appreciate it.

Mark McDonald

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bluesriff
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From: Tujunga, CA
Registered: Sep 2004
posted 03-20-2006 15:17     Click Here to See the Profile for bluesriff   Click Here to Email bluesriff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Mark, did you try doing a Forum search for DeArmond Pickups? Comments by Snakehips and others have been posted on this very topic.

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snakehips
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From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K.
Registered: Feb 2003
posted 03-20-2006 16:13     Click Here to See the Profile for snakehips   Click Here to Email snakehips     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi there !

Hear my internet line ringing, sounds like a long distance call ! (for advice !!)

Depends what sort of sound you are after.
I do like the old Dearmond pickups. There are two or three types that will suit your F-hole archtop.
These all mount on to a metal rod that is anchored onto the strings between the bridge and the tailpiece. You can slide the pickup along the rod to where you want the pickup - bridge end, neck end or anywhere in between - or chop and change whenever you feel like it !
A control box hangs down from this anchorage point and has the connector and/or cable to your amp.

An alternative method for pickup anchorage is via a shorter rod attached to the side of the fretboard with the control box often attached to the raised scratchplate anchor screw (or even fitted into the scratchplate, ditching the chrome box)
In order of cheapest to expensive (judged from average prices on eBay) :

Dearmond FHC pickup - large chrome pickup, usually with two cut-out stripes on the treble side, single volume control.
Prices can range from $100-300

Dearmond Rhythm Chief Model 1000 pickup - narrower chrome (but can be gold) pickup surround with maroon bezel over strings region, volume and tone controls plus "Rhythm" push-push switch (cuts down volume and tone I think - the switches on the two pickups I have don't work !!).
Prices can range from $300-500

Dearmond Rhythm Chief Model 1100 pickup - as the Model 100 but this one is the only one with individual adjustable pole-pieces - instead of the maroon bezel. Often gold plated.
Prices can range from $400-900 !!!

The original Rhythm Chief pickups had a difficult-to-find screw on connector for the cable. If you want to buy an old Dearmond pickup and it has this type of connector, make sure the pickup comes with the original cable or at least even just the screw on connector itself - to solder on a new cable to the vintage connector. Often you will find a mod has been already done to either hard-wire a cable into the box or a more modern connector will have been fitted - often a mini-jack.

These pickups give an old style sound - many jazz musicians see these as one of the few holy grail pickups - especially the Rhythm Chief Model 1100.

Big Joe Williams always has the cheaper FHC version on all the pictures of his various 9 string guitar concoctions (that I have seen) - whether on an archtop OR a flat-top guitar!!
Muddy Waters also used them on his archtop(s) before he got electric guitars.

When DID electric guitars come in anyway ???

1952 with the Telecastor and Les Paul goldtop ?
Well, Muddy must have used the Dearmond pickup at least up till then, I argue !! ???

Elmore James used the Rhythm Chief Model 1000 on his Kay flat top acoustic (ditching the "rod" and presumably gluing the pickup to the guitar top between the soundhole and bridge - this is usually obscured by his picking hand in pictures) - and I will insist I am right on this matter !!!
(Various photos of him with his Kay guitar show at least 3 different additional setups over the sound hole - including another Dearmond pickup meant for soundholes).

I'm not sure who is famous for using the Model 1100 Rhythm Chief - anyone ?

As the Rhythm Chief pickups are hard to come by at a decent price, I'd advise trying out the FHC pickup first. They give a really beefy tone on the treble strings - make sure you get the pickup as close to the strings as you can (without causing buzzing) - raise the pickup if need be with felt under the pickups. I use the adhesive felt you can get in hardware stores (for putting under chair legs etc - to protect wooden floors etc.) - if they are too tall, you can trim them shorter, or shape to the archtop curve with a "Stanley Knife" blade.

The last thing I'd say is that the bass string sound can sometimes be a bit weak - try them out though and see what you think. I absolutely love my "Elmore" Model 1000 Rhythm Chief Dearmond !
My FHC is pretty cool too !

I hope that helps !

(Do search in older threads though for more info)


[This message has been edited by snakehips (edited 03-20-2006).]

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Mark McDonald
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Posts: 151
From: Santa Rosa, CA. U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2004
posted 03-20-2006 17:08     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark McDonald   Click Here to Email Mark McDonald     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Snakehips. Great information.

Sounds like the FHC is the one I would be interested in. I did a check on Ebay and don't see any of the models that you described currently for sale. But I am sure they do come up. I am lucky to have an excellent tech that can install it and I don't care what mods I have to do to the guitar.

A Rhythm Chief 1000 sounds like it might do the trick but I think that is probably a different sound than what I am going for here, but it would be a cool sound none the less and might be fun to try.

Thanks again Snakehips. I really appreciate the input and thorough descriptions.

Mark

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sigurdd44
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Posts: 396
From: Madison, Wisc., USA
Registered: Nov 2003
posted 03-20-2006 18:37     Click Here to See the Profile for sigurdd44   Click Here to Email sigurdd44     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
go to archtop . com

http://archtop.com/ac_access.html

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snakehips
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Posts: 1042
From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K.
Registered: Feb 2003
posted 03-21-2006 00:11     Click Here to See the Profile for snakehips   Click Here to Email snakehips     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi again !

How about this on eBay - FHC pickup :

http://cgi.ebay.com/DeArmond-Guitar-Mike-Archtop-Pick-up-Gibson-Epiphone_W0QQitemZ7398845141QQcategoryZ33040QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-DeArmond-Guitar-Mike-Floating-Pickup_W0QQitemZ7400703550QQcategoryZ22670QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Rhythm Chief Model 1000 :

http://cgi.ebay.com/DeArmond-Rhythm-Chief-Model-1000-Guitar-Pickup_W0QQitemZ7399835570QQcategoryZ22670QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/DeArmond-Vintage-Pickup-Electric-String-Instrument-NR_W0QQitemZ7400400856QQcategoryZ22670QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Hope that helps !

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Mark McDonald
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Posts: 151
From: Santa Rosa, CA. U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2004
posted 03-21-2006 09:35     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark McDonald   Click Here to Email Mark McDonald     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Snakehips,

I couldn't find any of those. I don't know what I am doing wrong.

Anyway I looked at all of them and it seems that the first one (FHC)you pointed out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DeArmond-Guitar-Mike-Archtop-Pick-up-Gibson-Epiphone_W0QQitemZ7398845141QQcategoryZ33040QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

would be the best. It just has a few hours left.

Thank you very much for pointing these out. I will let you know how it comes out.

Mark

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Mike Neer
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Registered: Mar 2004
posted 03-21-2006 09:49     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Neer   Click Here to Email Mike Neer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I, personally, do not care for the FHC pickup. The ones I've owned were very microphonic and unbalanced sounding, particularly with bronze strings. I've had way more success with the Rhythm Chief (1000) and Super Chief (1100). I've owned several of each of these, and they are great. I'd spend a little more and get a Model 1000; you can get nasty tones with it, if that's what you're looking for. Just depends on your setup.

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snakehips
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Posts: 1042
From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K.
Registered: Feb 2003
posted 03-21-2006 10:37     Click Here to See the Profile for snakehips   Click Here to Email snakehips     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi again !

I've bought 3 FHC's on eBay in the last couple of years. I have sold one, with an archtop guitar.

The other two - one is a rare early one that doesn't have the two "cut-out" metal strips under the 1st and 2nd strings. I am assuming it is an early version. It is currently having the leads replaced as they were crackling on/off. I went back to the shop to pick it up and they had duffed up ! The volume control didn't work and it sounded really quiet !! It is getting orked on again.

The other one I've got actually came with the Rhythm Chief control box - when I say it came with it, I mean it was sold to me on eBay as on intact unit. The actual eBay pictures of it made it look like all the wires were connected. In fact, the cable from the pickup to the control box was not wired up at all, but was positioned in the photo to make it look like it was !! (the cable went underneath the control box instead of INTO it !! I hate these eBay cheats !!
Anyway, I got it wired up and it works great. Only last night I was working on it - making new felt pads to go under the pickup to hold the pickup at the correct height and angulation (ie. as close to the strings as possible without causing any buzzing).

The Rhythm switch works on this one - it certainly drops the volume and changes the sound - I don't think it is a simple reduction in tone (like turning the tone pot down - the tone pot still works as per normal). This control box has the vol+tone knobs of yellowed slightly rubbery plastic - almost cone shaped. My two Model 1000 Rhythm Chief pickup control boxes have the clear plastic round and squared off knobs - just like Elmore's guitar.

PS. You get great sustain with slide on the Rhythm Chief pickup - just like Elmore gets. The pickup sound "breaks up" when you hit the strings harder, if you have the amp set to "crunch" levels (not clean and not out'n'out distortion) - just like Elmore's sound.

The bass strings can be a bit lower in volume - that is the only problem I have with the pickup - and the reason why, I think, that Elmore experimented with additional pickups in the soundhole. The over-the-soundhole Dearmond pickup is only present on Elmore's guitar in pictures from ONE gig - October 1959 (I think). It is GONE in pictures from a December 1959 gig - thus I don't think Elmore relied on the over-the-soundhole pickup for his sound - ie. this pickup is gone BEFORE he records all his stuff for Bobby Robinson for Fire/Fury/Enjoy. The over-the-soundhole pickup DOESN'T have "the" sound anyway !!

Aaah shoot ! Here are some pictures :

My 1950's National non-reso archtop acoustic with FHC Dearmond (with Rhythm Chief control box)


and my Rhythm Chief Model 1000 on my Kay acoustic flat-top (plus over the soundhole Dearmond) :

[This message has been edited by snakehips (edited 03-21-2006).]

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snakehips
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From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K.
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posted 03-21-2006 10:52     Click Here to See the Profile for snakehips   Click Here to Email snakehips     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi again !

By the way, the very observant amongst you might spot that the over-the-soundhole Dearmond pickup is technically on the wrong way round. There are actually 6 polepieces but the one for under the 2nd string is set deeper into the pickup - to compensate for that string usually picking up louder than the otherstrings - and thus is a non-exposed polepiece. The pickup is on upside down so that the non-exposed polepiece is under the 5th string instead.

I have it like this because Elmore's is like this on his Kay in those colour photos and I wanted to test if it helped the sound at all - result - NAH !!!!
Perhaps he just wanted the volume control closer to him ?

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Alvis
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Posts: 323
From: Tennessee
Registered: Oct 2003
posted 03-21-2006 12:56     Click Here to See the Profile for Alvis   Click Here to Email Alvis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah I would think that would kinda kill the sound of a bronze 5th string .You're probably right about the volume control.

Another source of DeArmonds are the little Harmony solidbody guitars from the 60s.They usually fit on everything.Danelectros,National Resonators,Archtops

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snakehips
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Posts: 1042
From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K.
Registered: Feb 2003
posted 03-21-2006 13:16     Click Here to See the Profile for snakehips   Click Here to Email snakehips     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi again !

I use D'Addario 12-52 nickel wound electric guitar / jazz strings (with a wound 3rd)
(after extensive trials of all sorts of different strings, including DR Zebra strings).

NB. For the Rhythm Chief pickup on a flat top acoustic, you need enough clearance from the guitar top to the underside of the strings. Most acoustics I tried did not have enough clearance.
My Kay acoustic DOES have plenty clearance. I guess the bridge is factory set higher than most guitars, perhaps with a deep back angle neck set.

I've just won another Kay like it on eBay for £73 ($155 roughly) - which I'm gonna use for my spare Rhythm Chief pickup and experiment with additional pickups.
The one pictured above does not have both the Dearmond pickups connected together - they have separate outputs.

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snakehips
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From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K.
Registered: Feb 2003
posted 03-26-2006 08:06     Click Here to See the Profile for snakehips   Click Here to Email snakehips     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi again !

Slight update / change on what I said about the Rhythm Chief pickup !

I said that my Model 1000 Rhythm Chief (the one with the maroon bezel, without adjustable polepieces) was lacking volume on the bass strings. Well, since getting my latest Kay acoustic from eBay and putting on my spare Rhythm Chief model 1000 on it, I find that this one sounds much better.

I mounted the pickup with the bass side closer to the strings, than on my first Kay guitar.
It is still far enough from the strings and does not cause ANY buzzing.
The bass response is much more balanced with the treble strings (when using nickel wound 12-52 D'Addario strings).

ie. My mistake was that I layed the pickup flat on the guitar - the bass side was further away from the strings than the treble side !

I also thought that the Rhythm Switch was bust on both my Rhythm Chief pickups - it tunrs out that my spare one does work. I think my first pickup has the Rhythm Switch "stuck" on the quiter setting (with less bass response) - hence it sounding weak on the bass strings.

Thus, the point of me raising this thread again - Dearmond pickups are really cool (when working 100% !!)

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snakehips
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From: Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K.
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posted 03-26-2006 09:05     Click Here to See the Profile for snakehips   Click Here to Email snakehips     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PS. Does anyone know where I can get the correct pot for a replacement Rhythm Switch ?

I had the original pickup to control box wire changed as the original was all frayed and almost detached from the pickup itself. The guy I sent it to, to get fixed said he didn't have a replacement for it and didn't know where to get one.

Perhaps it is just not wired up correctly ? Anyone know how they are supposed to be wired up ?

I suppose I could take both pickups to a repair shop and let them inspect both and sort out any differences.

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